Home » Forum Home » General

Topic: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Replies: 166   Views: 128,955   Pages: 12   Last Post: Mar 17, 2020, 12:19 AM by: watsu

Search Forum

Back to Topic List Topics: [ Previous | Next ]
Replies: 166   Views: 128,955   Pages: 12   [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 | Next ]
zoeyk

Posts: 1,964
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 41
Home page
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 19, 2010, 8:48 PM

H10 for 5 captures,.. ok i see

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare

watsu

Posts: 988
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 19, 2010, 8:53 PM

And that's white's best (prolonging game) tactic!

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
rollietesh

Posts: 110
Registered: Apr 17, 2010
Age: 51
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 19, 2010, 9:13 PM

watsu's move 7) ... L11 is indeed an excellent shot, and up2ng's analysis looks very good. As up2ng says, the resulting position is unclear, and worthy of another game. My first impression is that P1's threats on the M file are difficult to answer by P2, but after seeing watsu's find, anything is possible.

L11 is the kind of "multi-cross-capture" move I always feared in tournaments, as I am not that good at spacial visualization. I instead played on the instinct of always maintaining the initiative at all cost, and then depending on "Pente justice" too prove me right. Luck seems to side with justice

Also, all three of zoeyk's suggested possibilities should not be dismissed so quickly. It is possible that one of those could still bear fruit.

I would indeed be eager to replay any of the suggested positions, I guess starting with watsu/up2ng analysis, especially since that game could settle this particular opening -- however, you will need to catch me in the right state of mind. Last Sunday worked. Other days soon might as well. Keep asking and we will eventually find a time when we are all again in synch.

All the best for now,

Rollie

ownercase

Posts: 11
Registered: Mar 11, 2010
Age: 48
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 19, 2010, 11:09 PM

From '79-'83 in Tulsa, i played pente hard. I remember all those pictures. It's great to relive the past even for just a minute.

zoeyk

Posts: 1,964
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 41
Home page
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 19, 2010, 11:33 PM

were you involved in any of the old tourneys, or know any one who was in one of the old tourneys ownercase?
i always enjoy tracking down people from the birth times of pente. i plan to do some interviews for a book im writing.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
ownercase

Posts: 11
Registered: Mar 11, 2010
Age: 48
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 19, 2010, 11:59 PM

didnt know any of them. i've always been a news hound, and being from tulsa i got first hand news on rollie. there was a group of us that would get stoned and play for days on end. i did turn out to be the best amongst us. i'm about 2 months into relearning it again. kinda like a pente cram.lol

jayhawklov

Posts: 96
Registered: Aug 17, 2002
From: Shawnee,ks
Age: 64
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 20, 2010, 2:23 AM

Did enjoy this game and welcome back to the Pente Community Rollie. May I ask if someone looked at N9 for P2s 6th move. Played it out many ways and it could win

Thanks Jayhawklov

rollietesh

Posts: 110
Registered: Apr 17, 2010
Age: 51
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 20, 2010, 2:33 AM

Hi Jawhawklov,

After 6) ... N9 how do you respond to 7) K11

Rollie

zoeyk

Posts: 1,964
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 41
Home page
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 20, 2010, 3:04 AM

hey jay,
After 6) ... N9 how do you respond to 7) J10

z

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
up2ng

Posts: 542
Registered: May 9, 2002
From: Northeast USA
Age: 38
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 20, 2010, 5:30 AM

Hey Jayhawk, I did look at 6 ... N9, defending the capture and I thought of the same response as Rollie, 7. K11. This is devastating because of the extension possibilities in each direction, and black has no real threats going. Blocking either side is no good, and capturing does not help black either since it does not lead to offense. White responds with a tria at K13 and L10 and black is in trouble. Black could try something goofy like:

7 ... O8
8. P7, K13

But again since black has no threats, white can just play:

9. J10

and is clearly in control from there.


Some of the other suggestions were:

13 ... O10

I looked at this one on my own also and I felt that white wins with a response at 14. M13 and then 15. M11 threatening multiple ways to extend for the win.

10 ... N13

I tried to see if this would work out also, but I don't see this going anywhere except by hoping for a mistake. Again, it's so defensive that black just doesn't create any threats with this move. Therefore, white can take his time and play something like 11. J9 and then 12. H11*, or even just 11. H11* and black now has nothing lined up in a meaningful way while white has many possibilities.

5 ... O11

I didn't look at very early (opening) moves as closely since these would have yielded a totally different game. In this game is it likely that things would have played out the same way or would it be much different? I'm not sure, maybe you guys can answer that!

I don't think zoey was suggesting that these moves would win necessarily, just merely throwing them out there as places where black at least had a choice about what to do. There weren't many choices, white was controlling the game throughout even though black played well.

zoeyk

Posts: 1,964
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 41
Home page
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 20, 2010, 8:24 AM

agreed, i didn't imply one side or the other had sure win, but only that these were paths to look into before dismissing, regardless of the surface's visual appeal, or lack there of.

i'll say that my 7) J10 idea looks close to solid in response to jay's 6) N9 idea. J10 seems to impose two threats that black can not answer in a single move. the G10,G9* combo and the K11, J9 combo. the reason i bring up this move is it was what i saw, and detoured me from the N9 move during play.

im basically going to reiterate what up2ng said in agreement;

Rollie's 7) K11 idea i'll say seems unclear from a surface look, because black appears to have choices.
black can extend 2 ways making a tessera. and there's the choice of going J12 or J10* , but these fail.

and as up2ng suggested;
or going K13 if the O8 extension piece is in place, P1 plays to J10 to defend from a "cap chain" attack that's aiming to divert a diagonal tessera's keystone.

from there white secures a win.





z


Message was edited by: zoeyk at Apr 20, 2010 2:51 AM


Message was edited by: zoeyk at Apr 20, 2010 4:51 AM

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
jayhawklov

Posts: 96
Registered: Aug 17, 2002
From: Shawnee,ks
Age: 64
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 20, 2010, 4:43 PM

Hi Rollie J10 would have been my next move then your next move would be interesting, played out most of the options, you have an advantage but not for long. This is so cool tho

rollietesh

Posts: 110
Registered: Apr 17, 2010
Age: 51
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 20, 2010, 5:07 PM

Hi Jay,

6) ... N9 is a good try, worth looking at, but I'm afraid it is too passive.

zoeyk is correct that his 7) J10 might even be a more direct win than my 7) K11, but it looks like both are winning.

After zoeyk's 7) J10, there appears no answer for P2 against the mutual threats of 8) G10 or 8) K11.

But it still looks like the immediate 7) K11 works. After 7) ... J10* then 8) J12, L10 9) K10*, L10 10) L12 appears to win.

A better try after 7) K11 might be zoeyk's 7) ... J12 but then 8) 07, J10* 9) N8, L10 10) K10*, L10 11) J11*

up2ng probably covered much of this as well.

It still looks like watsu's idea remains the best shot -- or perhaps something different back on move 3 or 4.

jayhawklov

Posts: 96
Registered: Aug 17, 2002
From: Shawnee,ks
Age: 64
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 20, 2010, 5:15 PM

I wish I had a computor at home, doing this at work is a no no, but make you next move and we will see, my new friend Ron

up2ng

Posts: 542
Registered: May 9, 2002
From: Northeast USA
Age: 38
Re: rollie tesh is browsing pente.org?
Posted: Apr 21, 2010, 2:17 AM

I'm not sure what zoey meant by the K11, J9 combo -- might be a typo. But I agree that:

6 ... N9
7. J10, G10
8. K11

looks like a clear win for white.

Rollie, I assume you meant 11. H11* in your second alternate line...

In your first alternate line, I'm not a big fan of moves like 8. J12 in these situations, since you are now opening yourself up for a keystone attack in a couple of possible directions (the whole point of covering up at 6 ... N9 in the first place right?). After looking at a few scenarios, it looks like white would probably survive a keystone attack in this case, but why risk it?

I saw it playing out more like this:

6. ... N9
7. K10, J10*
8. K13, K14
9. L10, J12
10. H11*

OR

6. ... N9
7. K10, J10*
8. K13, K10
9. K8*, K10
10. L10

I like avoiding keystone problems and capture problems early in the game if possible. Now, I admit it would be tough to see this far out when considering 6 ... N9 in a live game, but you summed it up nicely that it is just generally too passive and white will likely come up with "something" to keep things rolling after moves like this.

Does anyone see a sure win or a likely scenario for either player after watsu's suggested 7 ... L11! move?


Message was edited by: up2ng at Apr 20, 2010 10:52 PM
Fixed typo, changed 8. K10 to 8. K11


Replies: 166   Views: 128,955   Pages: 12   [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 | Next ]
Back to Topic List
Topics: [ Previous | Next ]


Powered by Jive Software