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Topic: leaderboard
Replies: 94   Views: 170,726   Pages: 7   Last Post: Dec 1, 2008, 3:15 AM by: watsu

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zoeyk

Posts: 2,070
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 43
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Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 12, 2008, 3:08 AM

ok,..im in concurrence with partica aswell. but merely saying active is to vague,..

perhaps;

"This Week's Active Leaderboard"

or

"Weekly Active Top Players List"

or

"Weekly Active Leaderboard"

err something

this would be much more clear in my opinion.

how ever, although i really want to agree with the idea that this will encourage the higher ups to play weekly, i strongly believe this will not be the case.

nosovs is always busy, rich,..well he seems to be busy aswell,... melanie rarely plays,.. karl has agreed to play weekly,.. but he has been phasing out pente so we'll see how far that goes. spifster and up2ng are barely ever here,...

so although the idea has good intentions,.. I hope i am wrong, but i fear it wont pan out as hoped for.

the yellows primarily will be the board leaders, and the reds will pop on the boards every couple of weeks or so.

and yes, let the yellows get there time in the spot light.
basically any time the reds want to they can bump the yellows down by way of ranking seniority.

~zoeyk


Message was edited by: zoeyk at Sep 11, 2008 9:17 PM

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare

mike321

Posts: 55
Registered: Jan 21, 2002
From: ohio
Age: 65
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 15, 2008, 9:08 AM

maybe this will stop the abnormal 'fear for my points' that seems to go with high ratings.

zoeyk

Posts: 2,070
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 43
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Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 15, 2008, 8:15 PM

Y A W N .................

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
karlw

Posts: 952
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 15, 2008, 9:47 PM

let it go, mike.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
lepews

Posts: 141
Registered: Feb 29, 2004
From: the land of smelly cheese
Age: 38
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 15, 2008, 11:58 PM

go Mike go!! I totally agree with you, and check it out - who's actually crying about having a weekly reset on the leader board? I rest my case..

And just to make it clear, I suggested to Peter to make this weekly reset to the leader board before this thread even started LOL

I don't see any point in renaming it 'Active players' or whatever. If you're a regular your score shows up, if you can't be arsed playing your name ain't there.

Totally fair in my book, and it gets rid of those points-hugging wannabees too

karlw

Posts: 952
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 1:10 AM

it's prima donna, and that's not the only error in your post.

consider this:

a) If a red player is forced to play at least once a week to stay on the leaderboard, they will most likely have to play players with much lower ratings than them--like 200+ points. That's indisputable: there are very few high-rated truly consistently active players on this site--go to the "active" (under the current definition) red players and see how many rated games they have played this month. There are also several complicating factors; for example, due to an ongoing tournament which we will most likely both be in round 3 of, Richard and I are not playing sets.

b) White has a distinct advantage. We all know this. Because of this, a 1700-player has a very good chance of splitting a set with a 1900-player, even if their ratings reflect their skill. This means that a yellow player will gain points from a red without really having done anything to earn it.

c) This means that a top-ranked player, if forced to play on a weekly basis, will have an unfairly hard time keeping their true rating, while yellow players will find themselves with a steady source of free points. The yellows and red will likely switch places, and the cycle will begin again. If anyone thinks this is a good way of doing things, I would like to hear their justification.

Now, personally I don't give a flying **** about ratings or leaderboards, but I want to stick up for those (such as zoey) who think ratings should reflect skill level and have very good reasons for not wanting to be forced to play on a weekly basis. I'm getting really sick of people slinging mud at people based on choices that they don't understand. Zoey and I have decided to do weekly public matches, but we both have really busy schedules, so it might not happen that we get to meet every week.

Finally, it's not clearly not just Zoey and I that feel this way. Go back to mersenne's excellent point:

"Rated sets are rather hard to come by.

Also, variations like boat and keryo (regular - ignoring speed and turn-based) already have only a handful of people on the leaderboard. D-Pente doesn't have anyone. Making it 7 days would essentially delete these leaderboards altogether."

-Karl

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
lepews

Posts: 141
Registered: Feb 29, 2004
From: the land of smelly cheese
Age: 38
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 5:17 AM

blah! Karl...

Why are some people such as Richardiii still up there and always red, even though he happily plays rated with anyone with a any lower rating?
Why are there crybabies such as you and Zoey who still are afraid to play a rated set with lesser players, just because 'it's not fair we may lose more points than we may win'?

So you guys decided to play with each other - how convenient! Get a room lol

I've been playing anyone rated, lower or higher regardless. Maybe that's why I'm not up the top of the board, but I don't care.

It's a game, and it's about playing. The leader board should reflect that, and not glorify the jokers who are so precious about their ratings they're afraid to give a fair chance to anyone to beat them.

I wish Peter would simply remove unrated games altogether - now that would be REALLY FAIR and give everyone a chance to show their TRUE COLOR or bugger off.

It would also end this ridiculous debate, which would be great by itself.

redsky_iv

Posts: 107
Registered: Feb 17, 2008
From: Edge of Space
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Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 5:23 AM

AMEN Brutha Skunky One!!!!!!! Can a man get a witness? :P

karlw

Posts: 952
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 6:21 AM

In the past 365 days, richardiii has played 17 rated games against players rated below yellow. That's less than a set per month. I also notice how you conveniently ignored my previous post, picking up only what served your purposes in mocking me. But it's clear that you don't care about having a discussion, so much as "resting your case," even thought it's not entirely clear what your case is.

Please don't treat zoey and me as one entity. I will play a rated set against anyone who challenges me, regardless of rating, provided they guarantee they will play a complete set and etc. However, I have played 2,500 rated games on this site in the past 2.5 years, which makes me probably the all-time most active player on this site. I am also a full-time student with a part-time job, so I do not play very much anymore. Please do not call me a crybaby because of this.

-K

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
lepews

Posts: 141
Registered: Feb 29, 2004
From: the land of smelly cheese
Age: 38
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 8:16 AM

Your previous post consisted of 'let it go Mike'

I don't see what I've ignored here? Mike made a very valid point, and I fully support him.

So you'll play a rated set vs anyone who'll guarantee a complete set and etc? A bit vague don't u think?

I still stick by what I said, and hope Peter will give the leader board a weekly reset for inactive players, as this will most definitely make it a lot more attractive to new players on the site.

karlw

Posts: 952
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 8:23 AM

No my previous post consisted of a reasoned explanation of the many problems that are attached with the proposed change in the definition of "active" (this was the part you ignored; but clearly you saw the post, because you made personal remarks about zoey and me playing a match this week).

Mike did not make a valid point, Mike expressed a personal opinion in an inflammatory manner.

"and etc." is my shorthand for playing fair and agreeing to all the written and unwritten rules, which includes not ditching mid-set. Playing a set is not an official rule here at pente.org, but it is a standard that all serious players adhere to (will you grant me that?) I'll try to be more explicit from now on.

Speaking of being more explicit, you would be wise to defend your opinions/facts instead of just saying "this will be fairer" or "this will be better" or "rich happily plays sets with anyone regardless of rating" and calling people who disagree with you jokers and crybabies. All of these statements you throw out with no corroborating evidence, which makes them very hard to accept.

-K

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
dweebo

Posts: 1,032
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Powell, OH
Age: 37
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Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 3:39 PM

Oh boy, I spend a weekend away and then Monday cleaning up debris from IKE (in Ohio no less!) and the forums have exploded!

I am not going to take sides in the ratings debate, but it is getting clearer in my mind that I cannot choose to ignore the problems with the ratings system for too much longer...

I also have to say I think it's too bad that some players are picking on Zoey. I think Zoey has done more for pente.org than 99% of our players, he frequently tries to contribute positive things to the forums, has started his own pente site, is working on various projects for the game, has looked into running his own live tournaments, and much more. I know that he is NOT going to put his own interests ahead of what is best for pente.org. If you actually read his comments I don't know how you can say he is being a crybaby. He is pointing out in his opinion why he thinks the change to the leaderboard is not going to have the desired effect that I am arguing for. He might be right, I don't know, and no one else does either. That is why we are discussing it here.

So I welcome this debate and discussion, but please try to keep it on topic and somewhat civil.

-dweebo

Pente Rocks!
redsky_iv

Posts: 107
Registered: Feb 17, 2008
From: Edge of Space
Home page
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 4:53 PM

[removed by dweebo, personal stuff not related to this thread] Peter if you want people to be 'civil' as you put it to particular players and go out of your way to make sure that the rest of us meanies don't 'pick' on them then you should probably walk a long mile out of your way to observe the behavior that is eliciting the response in the 1st place. Or do you really think that people that have been here for years and years with no history of baring their teeth would spontaneously do so with no provocation? I love and respect the work you do here D, but you gotta step away from the kool-aid man.

PS-Pardon me, but does anyone have any Grey Poupon?


Message was edited by: dweebo at Sep 16, 2008 4:26 PM


dweebo

Posts: 1,032
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Powell, OH
Age: 37
Home page
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 5:26 PM

I want people to be civil with everyone, not with only certain players. If that was unclear I apologize.


I think I've probably written this before somewhere. Some players play only for fun, other players play only for high ratings, and the rest of the players are somewhere in between. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to play, and I hope that all types of players can exist on the site together.

-dweebo


Message was edited by: dweebo at Sep 16, 2008 4:29 PM


Pente Rocks!
redsky_iv

Posts: 107
Registered: Feb 17, 2008
From: Edge of Space
Home page
Re: leaderboard
Posted: Sep 16, 2008, 5:33 PM

Co-existence isn't a problem D (and I don't need you to get involved in my personal life either, but those attacks were way beyond inappropriate and should have been dealt with), but when you imply that somehow he's made a contribution to the community that outweighs mike or lepews (or anyone for that matter), I gotta respond to that cuz it just ain't true by a long, long shot.

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