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Topic: Grand Master
Replies: 111   Views: 41,696   Pages: 8   Last Post: Sep 18, 2023, 11:05 PM by: zoeyk

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Replies: 111   Views: 41,696   Pages: 8   [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | Next ]
invictus

Posts: 430
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 3:15 PM

i would also like to point out that we were playing rated sets.
while i pose a nominal risk at best, it shows character.
even a split set would have cost pgon many points as one of the few active red live players.
gotta admire that (i do).

bloodied but unbowed
watsu

Posts: 1,446
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
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Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 3:31 PM

Pgon is still a provisional red(!) in live rated Pente games here. Not that it doesn't show character, but it's not exactly the same as expecting (or trying to stir up drama to get) an established red player to play you rated.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
invictus

Posts: 430
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 3:41 PM

i have no intent, watsu.
play me or dont.
i was just giving the man props.
sheesh.

bloodied but unbowed
watsu

Posts: 1,446
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
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Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 3:45 PM

I play you often, generally rated. I'm not an established red rated live player here, so it's a bit of a moot point, whether or not I play you. The evidence of dramatic intent towards established rated live red players is available in the forums for those who have kept up. All I'm going to say on the topic.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
invictus

Posts: 430
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 4:29 PM

yes, watsu, we have played many rated live games with similar risk to your points (meaning unlikely).
which i still maintains shows strength of character.
so thank you and props to you as well!
take whatever 'dramatic intent' from that you wish.

bloodied but unbowed
zoeyk

Posts: 2,220
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 45
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Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 4:39 PM

And people who insult peoples character just because they want to mooch some free tied set points off someone, it shows their character as well. I play seldom rated or unrated in my semi retired golden years. For my own reasons. But for sure anyone who insults my character over wanting my points, will be black listed from ever getting a rated set. As punishment for the disrespect.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
invictus

Posts: 430
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 4:44 PM

i would also say that i started this thread to hopefully define what determines a pente grand master because i was truly curious and there seems to be no written definition.
so i asked you guys.
and we seem to have reached a general consensus.
thanks guys!
i used my recent sets w/ pgon to help define what i see as a pente master.
in that perhaps grand master goes beyond ratings and tourney wins (which we seem to have established).
that's it.
if i somehow how caused affront, then i apologize.

bloodied but unbowed
zoeyk

Posts: 2,220
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 45
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Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 4:50 PM

A blue player playing pgon, is like a man looking at iceberg. Ice burg looks much bigger than you. You see size and say, "its exactly that big". But, if you could dive deep underwater where it goes, then you would see real size. But only iceburgs go that deep to notice each other.

That's my attempt at analogy. Pretend its at time before submarine or dive suit etc. Thanks.

How can you know full capability of black belt, if you are new to class and didn't fight strong and give hard challenge. For pgons depth to be revealed, you must push him to furthest depths of his capability.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
invictus

Posts: 430
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 5:02 PM

hmmmm...
i have no idea what that means, lol.
but if you are saying that a blue player is incapable of discerning the finely nuanced points of a pente grand masters moves, then you are probably right.
that being said, while i myself cannot sink a basket from 10 ft, i can appreciate kobe bryants slam dunks.
so...

bloodied but unbowed
zoeyk

Posts: 2,220
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 45
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Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 6:10 PM

I'm not knocking appreciating or amazement. Its just, how can a players skill be judged solely on your 1 v 1, if he wasn't pushed hard enough to show his furthest limits. To test a GM he must face very strong player who puts very tough moves on him. Other wise you can't see his true potential

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
invictus

Posts: 430
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 6:28 PM

agreed!
i could not possibly give pgon enough game to show his true ability any more than i could kobe.
and while i know that my game is practically nil next to his, i appreciate that he is willing to play and possibly educate a lower player such as myself.
reminds me of mlb players that help little leaguers.
its the love of the game.
and giving him props for that is in no way a slight on any other player here.

thats all i was saying.

bloodied but unbowed
zoeyk

Posts: 2,220
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 45
Home page
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 6:51 PM

Sorry, I only brought this up because you said " used my recent sets w/ pgon to help define what i see as a pente master" and ill assume you meant grand master...

And I'm just saying if we are here to figure out what defines a GM, we might need other measurements besides vic played a set in order to accurately know for sure. I can probably sweep you as well, but doesn't mean I'm a GM. Just shows I'm a master at least. GM is very special placement. I agree he is a GM. But I've seen further into his mind than most. There was a thread, where there was a puzzle, and both I and pgon were the only ones who could see and describe the solution. It was rather complex. That showed me something. Also, there was a tourney game where I was white, and he was black, and I won, but it showed me how deep and complex he was seeing. I chose a challenging white offense. He pushed me to my limits on that one. A side comment, in that game I did try to explain to him that the order of two captures I took mattered because if in wrong order he could win with extremely out side of the box move. But he could not see the move I eluded to. So that was interesting. I can bring that position up sometime and discuss it if he is interested to do so. Also one time he showed a secret swap2 opening he created, which was very good. He asked everyone at the table to keep secret. Maddhippo was there, and later as secshun8 alt, secshun8 used his opening in a rated set. Im unsure if he had permission to do so. Pgon was saving for a tourney. I think I can keep up with most of pgons thoughts, but I think he can see slightly deeper, and slightly quicker than me. And has slight more patience too, which is important GM trait. This is my honest observation thusfar.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
invictus

Posts: 430
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 7:12 PM

again agreed!
i did not mean to imply defeating me in 2 sets makes one a pente grand master.
if that were the case there would be many, many pente grand masters, lol.
that is far too low a bar!
i was trying to illustrate that perhaps part of what makes a pente grand master is giving back (like in major sports).

i cannot speak to 'secret' moves or 8's (or anyone else's) use of one with or without another players permission.

bloodied but unbowed
invictus

Posts: 430
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 7:32 PM

this thread seems to have inspired watsu to sponsor a tourney of sorts for the title of pente master!
those interested should check his last post in the forums general section!

bloodied but unbowed
zoeyk

Posts: 2,220
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 45
Home page
Re: Grand Master
Posted: Sep 15, 2023, 2:38 AM

Maybe I was tired reading it but I'm not sure what watsus thread was about. The way he wrote it confused me.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Replies: 111   Views: 41,696   Pages: 8   [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | Next ]
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