Re: member's voting poll regarding table chat privacy
Posted:
Mar 1, 2013, 7:30 AM
Excellent example Zoey.
Here is one of Dweebo's posts that includes his opinion on publishing conversations to a forum. Up2ng expands on the topic later in the same thread. The thread starts out as a discussion about Forum Policy.
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Re: member's voting poll regarding table chat privacy
Posted:
Mar 1, 2013, 9:11 AM
wow thanks. memory lane. any how, so in the first post there Dweebo says the following:
i think it is a bad idea to post conversations from the game room in the forums unless everyone has agreed to it; there is an implied privacy to what is said in a game table.
From now on, please do everything you can to avoid posting actual chat content to these forums. In the rare case that you feel that it is necessary, please carefully censor out all usernames, both the tags to the chat items, and any username or real name contained within the chat itself. If certain parts of the chat content make the identity of one or more participants of the chat extremely obvious, censor out the entire line with ****** marks or something similar.
Again, posting actual chat content to the forums should be extremely rare. In fact, you might want to send a PM to an admin with the content of the post you are about to make and wait for some feedback so that you can be extra sure about whether posting actual chat content is appropriate in that case.
The privacy of the content within chat rooms should be respected by all individuals (and admins) going forward, as Dweebo has recently mentioned that he always considered this to be an unwritten (implied) policy around here.
Thanks.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
The situation we are proposing to resolve, as I see it, appears to be which behaviors (words & actions)should be permitted or not permitted at pente.org. (The words should and should not seem to be responsible for a great deal of psychological suffering).
Perhaps we could dispense with most of the rhetoric and poppycock(mine included) and reduce it to one thought. To be reminded of that one thought, it could be posted on the dashboard, in the game room, and the window that we use to post in the forum. I will post that thought in the thread entitled "Welcoming Committee".
I'd like to say whatever my opinions on this issue were in the past or are presently shouldn't carry any more weight than anyone else's opinions.
This is a forum policy issue, it needs to be a community decision for how players here would like others to behave. In the past we tried to get people to come up with what forum policies they wanted but I don't think we ended up with anything.
pente.org has always needed someone to be a "community leader" to promote the site and handle these policies and forum disputes, it is not a position that I want.
right now pente.org is a ship drifting at sea, with no captain (to continue the analogy i am probably the guy in the engine room keeping the engines running). in my opinion pente.org needs a new captain to takeover the site and provide direction/improvements/etc. and a set of community leaders/moderators to help in the forums and with tournaments, etc.
i have no plans to continue development or become involved in policy decisions or forum policing.
i've tried in the past to find someone to take over pente.org but haven't been successful. if you are seriously interested in buying the site/software (all java/mysql based) contact me at dweebo@pente.org. i mainly want the site to be in someone's hands who will continue to improve things for players, and i am willing to sell it all for a very reasonable price (considering the amount of software that has been developed)! i'd even be willing to include the android app and code for the pente analysis tool (executable is posted in the forums somewhere).
Have you considered posting a note that's always visible on the Dashboard indicating Pente.org is looking for new site ownership . . . only Pente enthusiasts should apply? I'm sure you have your reasons for not advertising the details of the offer, to include asking price, but perhaps a link with the offer details you are OK with sharing would also be helpful in attracting a buyer.
IMO, this issue is not a one that needs a complex policy. For example, the above suggestion involving blanking names, etc., would be a good policy if you wanted to have one, but a formal, specific policy may not be very helpful.
That level of formality may be counterproductive. By posting a complex policy regarding chat logs in the forums, it is likely that more people will be inclined to do so who may have never thought of it otherwise. In addition, anyone with unfriendly motives could likely find a way to stay within the written rules and still be awful in whatever way they want to be.
I think this sort of anti-social behavior (disclaimer - I didn't see the post in question) falls under more general forum etiquette regarding harrasment and verbal abuse. I'd say to have the admins apply the existing reprimand/ban procedures for such unpleasantness.
On a meta note, public means public. Whether someone should post a public game room chat is different from whether their ability to do so should be policed. Given that the site supports private rooms, that option covers the player's desires to keep chats actually private.
Re: member's voting poll regarding table chat privacy
Posted:
Mar 8, 2013, 10:04 AM
zoeyk,
I apologized for letting you get me distracted from the orginal and only point (that being it is unacceptable to be rude to other, especially new players). Specifically, where a veteran player cursed at me, and then at another (presumably new) player, causing that new player to leave a clearly labeled "public" table, as witnessed by yet another veteran player. An example of something that has almost become standard operating procedure; adding to, if not causing a dramatic decline in active players at Pente.org.
I started another thread based on that chat from a PUBLIC table, where the rude behaving veteran was not the owner of that table. Although a short time later, the veteran player freely admitted his error and apologized, to date you have done nothing but defend the right to be rude. Eventually after many attempts at bringing you back from never ending points of distraction, I slipped off into personal insults, discrediting myself, which is what you wanted from the begining. Because obviously, there is no way for you to defend one player being rude to another player, not even if its done by a highly ranked veteran player on a private table. But for you, this has always been a matter of ego, plain and simple.
As if any player has the right to chase off new players, and in vain attempts at distraction, you made erroneous point after erroneous point. In one of your first knee-jerk reactionary defensive responses, you accused me of pointing my finger at "all" veteran players, when I was explicit in the use of the word "some" veteran players. Then you say it wasnt my point you obected to, it was my method. As if there was ANY way of not offending your ego. Reread your responses, and you begin with some nonsense about how you "normally" dont get involved, only to later post apologies for not having the time to grace us with more of your imput. WOW!
Clinging only to the letter of the law, you said that you refused to discuss the heart of the matter until I removed the chat from table 2 on Feb 24 approx 11pm. In an act of good faith (there's another legal term for ya), that chat was removed three days after being posted; still you have said nothing in objection to the original offense. Again, your ego makes it look like you approve of the mistreatment of new players.
You claim to study law for fun, which would naturally follow that you know you should choose your words carefully. Yet, you erroneously threw around legalese jargon such as the word "Slander". As if that would give you a base of righteousness.
Since you seem to be in love with the letter of the law, I am offically posting a notice, that the term "libel" is applicable here. A lay-persons definition of the word libel: Intentionally trying to negatively sway public opinion about someone, by the use of false or misleading written or broadcasted statements.
For example: Maliciously conducting a public opinion poll pointed squarely at me, intentionally mis-labeling the PUBLIC table chat (from table 2, on Feb. 24., approx 11pm) as "private" table chat. And misleading others into thinking it was jhs55's table; when you were explicitly told (some three hours before you started this libelous and grossly distorted poll), that player was not the host of said table.
Even if 90% of the voters agree with your libel, and want to have the right to be rude to other players, it doesnt make it right. Although, it does explain why so few people play here.
Nor does your ego or your ability as a Pente player give you the right to knowingly commit the crime of libel.
Remove this thread and your childishly skewed poll. It would be best if the other thread was removed as well. Otherwise, at my descrecion (and against all the laws of Vegas), I may repost that PUBLIC table chat in order to provide clear evidence, should further legal action be required.
Re: member's voting poll regarding table chat privacy
Posted:
Mar 9, 2013, 3:02 AM
We should dedicate this much conversation and energy to matters that make a difference such as cruelty to children and animals - not ADULT Pente players.
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Re: member's voting poll regarding table chat privacy
Posted:
Mar 9, 2013, 6:25 AM
The fact that I'm giving you this response means your on borrowed time with my energy here. I should continue ignoring you, and I shall, but first:
You removed the table chat AFTER I notified you that I was no longer going to take part in the discussion of that thread. You started doing untactful name calling and taunting in my direction so I left. You think that because you later removed it once I left that now all of a sudden I must respond to you, OR ELSE it proves that I have a big ego??? interesting.
I do support treating guests with kindness, but there is a way to present the topic properly. When it's done in an inappropriate way, well, quite simply it's a sad waste of energy, and all because of one person with semi good intentions was misguided in their approach, attitude, etiquette, manners, tone, etc, etc, when they tried to present it. I don't appreciate having to deal with that, and normally I wouldn't, but unfortunately, I felt compelled to defend jhs55. I don't like to see our member's publicly harassed, and embarrassed, and berated, and made a scene of. Especially by the means of using text that they honestly thought was private. They were led to believe this by the site owner and admin. If our members are bullied wrongly, and none will stand up for him/her, then I may (in a respectful way initially) man up and offer my voice in his/her defense.
Any how, Feel free to serve me papers for Libel. I assume if you do it means your legal name on your Drivers License is "Bluegreen". Otherwise you might have trouble making that Libel stick. Additionally, unless you can prove I have in fact lied about you, it seems that once again the Libel won't stick. But your the Legal buff, I wouldn't know...
:/ For those reader's whom are bored and might be curious.
The following are copied and pasted quotes from the following thread from a member named "Jackschidt" from posts on pages 1 and 2. I'll leave it to the readers to draw their own conclusions here. all quotes are in line with you know whose dialog, and the ones in bold are exact word matches with you know whose dialog. what a small world.
1- why the number of regular pente players in this community stays so small
2- That's the standard operating procedure.
3- Older players tend to jump on newer players and guests
4- here's a newbie that has the impression of not being welcomed
5- the "older players" are the ones who need some guidelines on site etiquette
6- New players should be welcomed, encouraged, etc
7- Assuming every new callsign is just a older-player playing incognito is wrong-headed
8- I like signing is as a guest for many reasons.
9- I make a point out of saying hello to newbies and welcoming them
10- being treated poorly by the pente-gods.
11- it's a typical tactic to attack the messenger when there is no excuse for the bad news.
12- how to keep from getting "jumped on" by boot-happy veteran players?
13- I'd like to apologize.
14- When I log on as a guest, people feel that they know so much less. There is no little colored box, there is no number; why wouldn't this be cause for concern?
15- I apologize, for me and every other newbie or guest who has been booted out of room because we did not appreciate how truly sensitive the pente-god's feelings can be.
16- I am sorry that we did not realize; the social norms of common courtesy, respect, patience, giving the benefit of the doubt, etc. do not apply to the pente-gods when they're having a mood swing.
17- I apologize for whoever knows the game of Pente, but is new to Pente.org; that these particular newbies don't automatically realize they should have to fully identify and validate themselves to the pente-gods
18- or becoming suspicious when they don't get their ego stroked), launches knee-jerk vitriol toward the messenger in a futile attempt to distract the fact.
19- When a new player shows up and doesn't act the way a few of us "think" they should act, they are likely to be booted from a room because of someone's paranoia.
20- if a guest or a newbie beats us, they couldn't really be new. So those people get interrogated to find out who they really are. I have talked with many new players that resent
this treatment. All of us have seen that, its the standard operating procedure
21- The Pente-Nazis are coming!!!
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and just for the heck of it, here's a post from halfast in response to jack's upper comments/posts, etc.
All true (sort of, but I'm not one to quibble......) jack but why not try common sense and reason (like the newbie who started this thread) instead of douchebaggery and flailing about like a mental patient set on fire?
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: member's voting poll regarding table chat privacy
Posted:
Mar 9, 2013, 8:39 AM
LOL, all this does is prove that veteran players are still abusing new players. And that you have commited criminal libel. Twisted polling may rally your cohorts to support that activity, but it still doesnt make it right.
Keep on scaring new players away, you're doing such a wonderful job at it.
