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Topic: Dweebo's Stone Games Tournament 3
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vitals

Posts: 39
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: ~THE BACK WOODS~
OH-MY Go fishing for a week and look what happens})
Posted: Apr 16, 2002, 8:11 AM

Hello All,


WHERE IS ALL THE LOVE?????????????? }) Wish I had somthing
intelligent to say, but I dont, }( I just wanted to say that I
dont care who I play in any round of the tourney. If I cant win the
top players in the tourney, then I will not win the tourney
regardless
what round I play them in. So, BRIN IT ON!!!!!!!! }) you never
know, I may get lucky. I do hope that there are not going to be any
hard feelings being created here. The main reason I play at DSG, is
because 99.9% of the people I have had the pleasure of meeting, are
GREAT people. I Hope that everyone will take it in stride and give
the changes a chance. Nothing is set in stone and never can every
person agree on any one thing, so lets just have fun, get along and
make suggestions for changes without degrading anyone else.

Joe, I think that Mark answered the wrap messege question just a fter
you posted it.


OH YEAH...... I went steelhead fishing for 4-days and landed 25.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO It was a blast and I cant
wait to do it again.
~~~~~~~*************~~~~~~
I have made no sence for too long so _______PEACE OUT ALL______

vitals



This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

anonymous

Posts: 72
Registered: Jul 3, 2002
Re: Tournaments and Seedings
Posted: Apr 16, 2002, 9:58 AM

Hello,

Thanks sandsquish for the information about different tournament formats
and thanks to all who have participated in this discussion.

For this third tournament, Joe and I would like to go ahead with the
rules I had posted in which the top portion of players are seeded by
rating and the rest are seeded randomly.

For the fourth tournament, it is likely that we will try the Swiss type
of tournament and see how that works in comparison. I hope that
everyone will join in and enjoy the tournaments even if the format is
not their preference.

-Mark





This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

anonymous

Posts: 72
Registered: Jul 3, 2002
DSG III current signup list
Posted: Apr 16, 2002, 10:01 AM

userid:
mmammel
joeking
dweebo
cooda
arneblom
pontus
umpapa
progambler
ilurath
emerald
mike321
plaslum2
elzorro
wrhino23
spur66
weldonm
fordbc
nonaltus
kurupt
virag
gaylen
vitals






This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

progambler

Posts: 79
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Lenexa, KS
Age: 42
A concern about some misleading statements and some other stuff
Posted: Apr 17, 2002, 4:12 PM

Regan -

This debate has been long and interesting although it has been a bit
ugly at times. None of us are going to convince one another of our
points of view, so I won't expound on the debate anymore.

It looks like the debate has prompted Mark Mammel to announce that
possibly DSG4 will be a Swiss system tourney. I think that is great
although I would still like to see the current format tried for 2 or
3 tourneys.

Please keep in mind that in Swiss system tourneys, the top half of
the players pretty much BLOW OUT the bottom half of the players in
round 1. With the current format, if you're seeded near the bottom,
you could also get someone else near the bottom or below the middle.
As DmitriKing said, I think it's unfortunate that may people were
quick to complain about the new format before giving it a chance.

While the Swiss system guarantees that everyone will play in every
round, it eliminates some of the suspense that is inherent in an
elimination style tourney.

Another alternative that many people may be agreeable to is a seeded
multi-round round robin where the top 2-3 in each division advance
just like Mark does at PBEM. That way, in the first round, you'll
play a wide variety of players, because the divisions will be of
nearly equal strength. The only disadvantage there is that a tourney
may take 4-5 months instead of 2-3 months.

Regan, there is one thing that is bothering me that continues to
occur consistently in many of your statements. You continue to state
and/or imply that the worst will always play the best in the new
tourney format. I'm not sure if you aren't understanding the format
or if you are exaggerating somewhat to try to make a point. Your
point would be better made without the exaggeration because I would
know that you understand the format. Let me site several examples
from your messages:

>> It deliberately places the best against the weakest. <<

>> How you can even say that's stimulating. When you put the best
against the weakest 1st game. Unless you consider being pissed off
stimulating. <<

>> Ok so if your the CEO & play a pente game your going to play
the mail boy first that doesn't even know how to play pente because
your the boss? << (Once again, implying best vs. worst)

>> If your ranked #12 Why enter if your guaranteed to go up against
#1 player your very 1st game. <<


As you can see, in EVERY one of these statements, you are implying
that we are deliberately 'placing the CEO vs. the mail boy'. I'm not
sure what to think. Regardless of our differences of opinion here,
it bothers me that these statements continue to be made even though
we have explained several times that the best is NOT guaranteed to go
against the worst.

I said I wouldn't expound on my point of view, but I wish to state
the actual fact as it exists right now, so no one is mislead:
If we stopped taking entries today at 22 players, the top 8 would be
seeded and the rest would have a 1 in 14 chance of playing the top
player. (8 rated seeds, 14 random seeds)

My point is that it would be greatly appreciated if you please not
continue to imply that the best will ALWAYS play the worst in our
current tourney format. I believe that will REALLY scare some
players off!

OK, now on to DmitriKing who shares my views. Dmitri, I think it's
important that you use your spell check if you want to get a point
across. It appears by the number of typos in your memos that you're
typing as fast as your thoughts come up, which indicates an emotional
response. A logical instead of an emotional response is much more
likely to be heard and considered.

Also, I personally live in an upper-middle class suburb of the Kansas
City area where most people are doing OK for themselves. We aren't
rich but we do OK. I personally am not particularly religious and am
quite liberal on social views. (Sorry all you Texans out there!)
[LOL] But I believe that if I asked ANYONE in my neighborhood if
S___ or D___ were cuss words, they would say yes. I would absolutely
not allow my kids (9 year-old son, 6 year-old daughter) to use that
language in our household and if another kid in our house said them
more than once, they would be asked to leave. Once again, my point
is that you will make yourself much better heard if you leave out the
4-letter words.

Please know that I mean no insults here. It is just friendly advice.


Thanks,
Gary Barnes



This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
thoughts on the recent posts
Posted: Apr 17, 2002, 5:51 PM

Someone said this debate is the best thing to happen to pente since
1982. The fact that we are all so involved in this debate shows how
interested we are in the game of pente, for we would not argue so
vehemently about something we are not passionate about.

I looked at the signup list, and it looks like a great crop of
players. I am sure there will be many more to sign up before it
starts, as several players have mentioned to me on DSG that they will
play but haven't officially signe up yet. It would be nice if we
could get Scott Justice, Aaron Fortune, Don Banks, and other players
of that caliber to play...

Regan, I hope you decide to join. You are a good player and a good
guy, and In our dialogue I intended to counter your arguments, I did
not intend to personally attack you or anyone; sometimes my writing
just comes out that way, but it is not my intent. Conveying one's
exact emotions over cyberspace can be difficult. I am not mad at you
or anyone and I have nothing against you or anyone personally.

Regarding my typing and my language--My typing is atrocious, it
always has been and it always will be. I correct dozens of errors as
I make them, but many still slip by. Gary is right, I should check
it over before sending, becasue typing errors can obscure the meaning
of a statement and furthermore, by checking my post for typing
errors, I can review it to make sure I am saying what I want to say
without being overly confrontational.

As far as my language goes--obviously different people have diffeent
interpretations of what constitutes inappropriate language. I
maintain that the context in which I used thewords I did was
harmless, and I think context means everything. I also think that
it is not laways possible to kow in advance what other peoiple's
standards of lanmguage usage will be. But, now that it has been
called to my attention that some people do have different guidelines
than I do, I will refrain (I will try my best, the word D___ is so
ingrained in me that I cannot make any promises, but I will try) from
using certain words. Again, I do not apologize for using them,
becasue I don't think there was anything wrong with using them; but I
will respect the wishes of others who see things differently than I
do.

Now, on this topic--I don't mean to be a wiseguy and cause trouble,
but exactly how is one supposed to know what is an isn't acceptable
language in a public forum? Maybe growing up in New York City,
things were just different for me, almost everyone around me used the
D___ word; teachers, parents of just about everyone I know, people
who generally do not use foul language. I still hear most people use
the word, and nothing is mean by it. It just isn't considered a
curseword where I am from.

Now I am not sure what I can say here for fear of offending
someone... So, I if I happen to say somethig else that offends
soemone, I hope everyone realizes that is not my intent. What one
doesn't find offensive another one might. This can never be
avoided.

As someone who doesn't have kids and never will, I do not stop to
think about anything from that perspective, but I did think I was
watching my language and I didn't realize that there was anything
harmful for kids to read. I think kids should be able to read the
pente board without worrying about inappropriate content, so again, I
will do my best.

--Dmitri



This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

regan

Posts: 44
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Texas
Age: 40
DSG Tournament
Posted: Apr 17, 2002, 6:39 PM

Hello Eveyone,

Thanks Vital good point.
Gary apparently I don't understand but this is why. This is only part
of the message but it's where I got the information from. It clearly
states for the example what I stated.

Thanks
Regan

Message 692

From: mmammel8
Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 12:27 am
Subject: Dweebo's Stone Games Tournament 3

3) Seeding of top players. As is seen in chess and tennis
tournaments, the top 25-50% of the players will be seeded according to
rating on DSG. The rest will be seeded randomly. In each round,
matches will be assigned by pairing the highest seed against the
lowest, then the next highest vs. the next lowest ( with 12 players:
#1 vs #12, #2 vs #11 etc).





This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
Re: DSG Tournament
Posted: Apr 17, 2002, 8:21 PM

Regan, I can clear this up, I see where the imsunderstanding
happened.

Suppose there are 22 players--the top 8 get seeded 1 through 8. Then
the other 14 are randomly given a number between 9 and 22. At that
point, each of the twenty-two players will have a number between 1 ad
22, and they will be matched up 1 vs 22, 2 vs 21, etc.

So, the person who actually gets that number 22 could be any of the
14 non-seeded players.

Now, moving ahead to round 2: Any of the original 8 who are still in
the first bracket will retain their original seeding, and the
remaining players still alive will then be randomly assigned the
remaining numbers. Then, once again, the person with the low number,
11 in this case, would be faced against the 1 seed, but aagin, it
could be any of the remaining non-seeds who gets that low number, and
it will have nothing to do with the nubmers that were randomly
assigned in the first round.
Now, regarding what Gary and Mark and Vitals and Regan said--I am
rather annoyed with yahoo at the moment, I have about had it with
this aggravating site. I posted a VERY long, thoughful message in
response to all that was said. It was polite, well thought out, and
I meticulously checked it for spelling and to make sure my language
was clean and clear, and was not emotionally charged.

And, for all this effort, yahoo did not post it, probably because
when I tried to, it brought up one of those insidious pop-up ads
instead. I am really annoyed and I do not feel like retyping it
right now, but important points were made and I will try to recreate
it later. I must say I am really discouraged that my post was lost
becasue of the ill-advised way in which these ads are used. I cannot
begin to express my frustration with wasting so much time for a lost
post.

I wish yahoo woudl so soemthing about this, this is the second time I
lost a very long and well thought out post due to this problem.
I used control C to copy the text before I posted, but by the time I
realized it hadn't posted, I had already used control C for something
else and it was lost.








This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

fordbc

Posts: 4
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: DSG Tournament
Posted: Apr 17, 2002, 8:27 PM

Ahhh... I suppose that could be a bit confusing. But say the are 16
players. You look at the rankings and see who the top 25% are. Then
those four become the #1 - #4 seeds. Then everyone else's name is
thrown in a hat and randomly assigned to seeds #5 - #16. So anyone
from the 5th best player to the worst player could be playing the
best player, and the worst player could end up playing the second
worst player.

--- In pente2@y..., theoriginalregan <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Hello Eveyone,
>
> Thanks Vital good point.
> Gary apparently I don't understand but this is why. This is only
part
> of the message but it's where I got the information from. It
clearly
> states for the example what I stated.
>
> Thanks
> Regan
>
> Message 692
>
> From: mmammel8
> Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 12:27 am
> Subject: Dweebo's Stone Games Tournament 3
>
> 3) Seeding of top players. As is seen in chess and tennis
> tournaments, the top 25-50% of the players will be seeded according
to
> rating on DSG. The rest will be seeded randomly. In each round,
> matches will be assigned by pairing the highest seed against the
> lowest, then the next highest vs. the next lowest ( with 12 players:
> #1 vs #12, #2 vs #11 etc).



This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

anonymous

Posts: 72
Registered: Jul 3, 2002
Re: [Pente] DSG Tournament
Posted: Apr 17, 2002, 9:30 PM


> 3) Seeding of top players. As is seen in chess and tennis
tournaments, the top 25-50% of the players will be seeded according to
rating on DSG. The rest will be seeded randomly. In each round,
matches will be assigned by pairing the highest seed against the
lowest, then the next highest vs. the next lowest ( with 12 players:
#1 vs #12, #2 vs #11 etc).


What this means is that with twelve players, the first four seeded spots will
go to the four highest rated players in order. The rest of the spots (5-12)
are assigned randomly. Then #1 spot plays against #12 spot etc. #1 spot is
the #1 ranked player but #12 is not necessarily the #12 ranked player. The
5-12 random positions are re-randomized each round. Sorry for the confusion.
-Mark



This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
Re: DSG Tournament
Posted: Apr 18, 2002, 12:42 AM

Regan, I can clear this up, I see where the misunderstanding
happened.

Suppose there are 22 players--the top 8 get seeded 1 through 8. Then
the other 14 are randomly given a number between 9 and 22. At that
point, each of the twenty-two players will have a number between 1 ad
22, and they will be matched up 1 vs 22, 2 vs 21, etc.

So, the person who actually gets that number 22 could be any of the
14 non-seeded players.

Now, moving ahead to round 2: Any of the original 8 who are still in
the first bracket will retain their original seeding, and the
remaining players still alive will then be randomly assigned the
remaining numbers. Then, once again, the person with the low number,
11 in this case, would be faced against the 1 seed, but again, it
could be any of the remaining non-seeds who gets that low number, and
it will have nothing to do with the numbers that were randomly
assigned in the first round.
Now, regarding what Gary and Mark and Vitals and Regan said--I am
rather annoyed with yahoo at the moment, I have about had it with
this aggravating site. I posted a VERY long, thoughtful message in
response to all that was said. It was polite, well thought out, and
I meticulously checked it for spelling and to make sure my language
was clean and clear, and was not emotionally charged.

And, for all this effort, yahoo did not post it, probably because
when I tried to, it brought up one of those insidious pop-up ads
instead. I am really annoyed and I do not feel like retyping it
right now, but important points were made and I will try to recreate
it later. I must say I am really discouraged that my post was lost
because of the ill-advised way in which these ads are used. I cannot
begin to express my frustration with wasting so much time for a lost
post.

I wish yahoo would do something about this; this is the second time I
lost a very long and well thought out post due to this problem.
I used control C to copy the text before I posted, but by the time I
realized it hadn't posted, I had already used control C for something
else and it was lost.
).



This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

anonymous

Posts: 72
Registered: Jul 3, 2002
Message from Dmitri King
Posted: Apr 18, 2002, 6:29 AM

I cannot post with my regular account for some unknown reason, so I
am posting from a new account.


Regan, I can clear this up, I see where the misunderstanding
happened.

Suppose there are 22 players--the top 8 get seeded 1 through 8. Then
the other 14 are randomly given a number between 9 and 22. At that
point, each of the twenty-two players will have a number between 1 ad
22, and they will be matched up 1 vs 22, 2 vs 21, etc.

So, the person who actually gets that number 22 could be any of the
14 non-seeded players.

Now, moving ahead to round 2: Any of the original 8 who are still in
the first bracket will retain their original seeding, and the
remaining players still alive will then be randomly assigned the
remaining numbers. Then, once again, the person with the low number,
11 in this case, would be faced against the 1 seed, but again, it
could be any of the remaining non-seeds who gets that low number, and
it will have nothing to do with the numbers that were randomly
assigned in the first round.
Now, regarding what Gary and Mark and Vitals and Regan said--I am
rather annoyed with yahoo at the moment, I have about had it with
this aggravating site. I posted a VERY long, thoughtful message in
response to all that was said. It was polite, well thought out, and
I meticulously checked it for spelling and to make sure my language
was clean and clear, and was not emotionally charged.

And, for all this effort, yahoo did not post it, probably because
when I tried to, it brought up one of those insidious pop-up ads
instead. I am really annoyed and I do not feel like retyping it
right now, but important points were made and I will try to recreate
it later. I must say I am really discouraged that my post was lost
because of the ill-advised way in which these ads are used. I cannot
begin to express my frustration with wasting so much time for a lost
post.

I wish yahoo would do something about this; this is the second time
I lost a very long and well thought out post due to this problem.
I used control C to copy the text before I posted, but by the time I
realized it hadn't posted, I had already used control C for something
else and it was lost.




This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

regan

Posts: 44
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Texas
Age: 40
DSG Tournament
Posted: Apr 18, 2002, 5:28 PM

Ok thanks I understand.
Why are they seeded again in the 2nd round?
Does that continue thru out the tourny?
If so for how many rounds & why?

Thanks
Regan



This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
Re: DSG Tournament
Posted: Apr 18, 2002, 6:39 PM

--- In pente2@y..., theoriginalregan <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Ok thanks I understand.
> Why are they seeded again in the 2nd round?
> Does that continue thru out the tourny?
> If so for how many rounds & why?
>
> Thanks
> Regan

It continues like that throughout the tournament. If we didn't keep
redoing it, the person who was unfortunate enough to ramdomly receive
the lowest number in round 1 would then be stuck with it for the
entire tournament, which wouldn't be fair.



This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

anonymous

Posts: 72
Registered: Jul 3, 2002
current DSG signup list
Posted: Apr 22, 2002, 9:15 AM

Wednesday is the deadline to sign up. Here is the current list of
44(!) players:
mmammel, joeking, dweebo, cooda, arneblom, pontus, umpapa, progambler,
ilurath, emerald, mike321, plaslum2, elzorro, wrhino23, spur66,
weldonm, fordbc, nonaltus, kurupt, virag, gaylen, vitals, thechez,
jimmyjohn, daiajo, ediscs, jim333, jimfromhu, shadowsil, vincent,
dmitriking, maeldor, excel, mtdremz, regan, bastrogue, SirMark2nd,
wwhill, danzor, breathmint, oldhippie, rcolter, kmbailey, henipearl

Let me know right away if you are not on here but want to/should be.




This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

joeking

Posts: 86
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Lake Tawakoni just east of Dallas, Tx.
Age: 56
Home page
DSG tournament matches
Posted: Apr 28, 2002, 5:48 AM

Hi all!
Arne Blom and I will play at 15.00 gmt = 9am cst (texas time).
Umpapa will play oldhippy 3 hours later at 18.00 gmt = 12 pm cst.
Come watch if you can!
50 entries in DSG!! It will be a great tournament!
A historick ( spelling???) pente event!
Joe




This message was originally posted at Yahoo's pente group.

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