Home » Forum Home » Analysis

Topic: what's the best move
Replies: 12   Views: 24,770   Pages: 1   Last Post: Oct 28, 2008, 4:06 PM by: zoeyk

Search Forum

Back to Topic List Topics: [ Previous | Next ]
Replies: 12   Views: 24,770   Pages: 1  
sjustice

Posts: 72
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: pensacola
Age: 40
Home page
what's the best move
Posted: Oct 25, 2008, 7:17 AM

Here's a game from the past. White was unable to find a win over the board. In fact, a collection of the best players in the world was unable to find a win in the 20 minutes that white had left on his game clock. I challenge you to set the game up, start your timer and try to figure the best move for white just as if you were in a real tournament game situation. Of course that means no moving pieces except in your head. For those of you who recognize the position, then y'all have either really studied up or have a good memory. Resist the temptation of checking the database, checking responses or touching the pieces until you have decided what your move is. The one complaint I got from when I made up some puzzles is that they were not realistic and could not arise out of a real game. Although this position is not as hard as the typical puzzle, it is pretty tough when just looking at it in a real game situation. Of course in the real game white was not really sure that he still had a winning initiative and had about as much pressure on him that Pente has ever created.


K10,L11,N10,N11,M11,L12,L10,O9,L13,M10,L9,J10,O12,M10,J11,K10,L10,H10,K12,L8,M14,N15,N13,L11,L10,P11




watsu

Posts: 1,269
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 26, 2008, 6:10 AM

Hoo boy, that looks like one I'd lose unless I got very lucky with a next move guess... and since I've given up I'll just mention that it's not currently in the db, but I did eventually manage to find the game anyway. Very nice.


Message was edited by: watsu at Oct 26, 2008 1:25 AM



Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
up2ng

Posts: 542
Registered: May 9, 2002
From: Northeast USA
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 27, 2008, 4:45 PM

Nice post! Looks like a tough position. I think I did find a good move for white and it did take me several minutes. If I was under time pressure in a tournament setting, this certainly would have been a stressful position indeed.

sjustice

Posts: 72
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: pensacola
Age: 40
Home page
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 27, 2008, 11:18 PM

Yep...pressure for this could be defined as here's the position you've gotten yourself into and all you have to do is find a winning continuation that may or may not be there and your clock is ticking. By the way, if you win then you have a very good chance of winning $5000. If you lose, then you get $250.

karlw

Posts: 953
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 28, 2008, 5:21 AM

very interesting position. after looking at it for about 5 minutes, i say play o13 and hope that the initiative on the O file with its potential keystone threats will do the trick, although i am far from certain of this.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
richardiii

Posts: 371
Registered: Dec 8, 2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Age: 65
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 28, 2008, 5:27 AM

Yes karl! O13 then work the O line after that at O14. Ether caps or two 4s win from there.

zoeyk

Posts: 2,071
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 43
Home page
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 28, 2008, 1:34 PM

this is a line i looked at insipred by what karl and rich said,
to see how far black could fight it.

err doesnt work though,..has a flaw early on













Message was edited by: zoeyk at Oct 28, 2008 10:08 AM

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
richardiii

Posts: 371
Registered: Dec 8, 2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Age: 65
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 28, 2008, 3:43 PM

Zoey,

Please rethink that 16th for white. Keep working the O line.

sjustice

Posts: 72
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: pensacola
Age: 40
Home page
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 28, 2008, 3:47 PM

Sorry in advance for resorting back to the old notation, but I refuse to take a sharpie and mark up my board. Yes, R4U3! is the winning move. I agree that black can prolong the game by not immediately capturing, but white is still able to win.

This game took place in the 1983 World Tournament in the Quarter Finals. After the regular games were played, the top eight players played best 2 of 3 matches in a single elimination format to decide the champion. Rollie Tesh and Dan Allen split their first two games and this was the deciding third game. Interestingly enough, it was the only final playoff match that actually went to three games in the tournament.

I think I was sort of a runner who took the moves from one room to the other so that Braunlich could run a demonstration board. I still wonder if I would have been able to come up with the correct move in that situation if I was sitting at the table. After seeing the move, I say yes. But, in reality I think I would not have been able to find it just like Dan, along with all the other players in the demonstration board room, were unable to find it. One thing I think is clear is that if you are given a situation and told there is a clear win for you, then it is easier to analyze and find the move. But, if you are in a situation without the assurance, then it is more difficult. Unlike the swimmer who knows where the shore is, we often find ourselves in a fog and often drown even if the shore is only a few hundred yards away. Being told that you have a winning move or that you can force pente in 4 is like being told where the shore is.

Here's some of Tesh's comments about the position, "Up to this point, Allen has been flying through his moves and still has most of his time left. But now he starts to think. He had expected the normal block 13...R1U5 in which case he could win easily with 14.R2U3. The point of 13...R5U1 is that if now 14.R2U3 Black wins with 14...R2U5! when the stone on R5U1 will contribute to a fifth capture. Notice also that 14.R1U5 first doesn't help because after 14...U6 15.R2U3 then Black wins with 15...R2U2.

The more time that ticked off of Allen's clock, the more excited I felt. Could this move be working!?

This was the only game that was still in progress in the quarter finals, and, unknown to Allen and me, most of the other players were in the next room, analyzing this position on a demonstration board with Braunlich and Gabrel. They spent the full 20 minutes that Allen now spent trying to find a way for White to continue without losing two more captures. No such continuation was found, and now, with only 5 minutes left, Allen was forced to make a move: 14.R3D1*?

The question is, did White have a win somewhere? No one was able to find anything concrete that night. In fact, Allen went on to win his very next game as black using this defense. It was only as I was writing this article that I discovered the following clear and immediate forced win for White: 14.R4U3!, R2U3 15.R4U4,R5U3* -- the fourth, but last, capture Black can get -- 16.R4U3, R4U5 (If 16...R4U1 then 17.R4U5) 17.R4U1, R4 18.R4D2*,R4 19.R3D1* and Black cannot keep from losing his fifth.)"

Tesh went on to win the game and the title, $5000, a trip to California, the Pente Cup, and the traditional custom championship board.

"I think that 14.R3D1* is my favorite Pente move of all time." Rollie Tesh

zoeyk

Posts: 2,071
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 43
Home page
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 28, 2008, 3:53 PM

i made a typo grid error,..dixlexia or something, i dunno...oops. trying to fix them. err sigh i must sleep now lol,.. ill edit these tomarrow,..yes ill look at the O line after work. thnx.
wasted all my time trying to transfer moves information into peter's forum board app and i fouled it up some how.


Message was edited by: zoeyk at Oct 28, 2008 9:57 AM


Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
sjustice

Posts: 72
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: pensacola
Age: 40
Home page
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 28, 2008, 3:58 PM

And yes, I agree with Richard, just work the O line instead of that 16th move. You'll force Black to have to block a pair from being taken, and then that stone keeps Black from capturing and life is easy for White.

sjustice

Posts: 72
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: pensacola
Age: 40
Home page
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 28, 2008, 3:58 PM

This is real time, almost like a chat...

zoeyk

Posts: 2,071
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 43
Home page
Re: what's the best move
Posted: Oct 28, 2008, 4:06 PM

hmm


Message was edited by: zoeyk at Oct 28, 2008 10:13 AM


Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Replies: 12   Views: 24,770   Pages: 1  
Back to Topic List
Topics: [ Previous | Next ]


Powered by Jive Software