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Topic: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Replies: 23   Views: 14,526   Pages: 2   Last Post: May 21, 2022, 1:54 AM by: karlw

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zoeyk

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Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 43
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Re: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Posted: Apr 15, 2022, 9:18 PM

Karl did challenge me to try this game in the live room. I didn't have time when he was on. Ill try to see if we can do that at some point. Will be interesting to see the results. As he and I are both strong players. So we should be able to flush out the truth of this game in theory.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare

zoeyk

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From: San Francisco
Age: 43
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Re: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Posted: Apr 15, 2022, 10:55 PM

still not sure why black played O8, should had been O5? to prevent split 4 i presume.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
watsu

Posts: 1,306
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Posted: Apr 15, 2022, 11:46 PM

We didn't actually play the moves this far into the game, this was just a projection as to how the game might have proceeded if we had continued further. Ned resigned around move 10, which I thought was too soon, but I hadn't been looking at the O5 or O8 possibilities yet when he resigned.


Message was edited by: watsu at Apr 15, 2022, 11:53 PM


Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
zoeyk

Posts: 2,086
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From: San Francisco
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Re: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Posted: Apr 17, 2022, 4:04 AM

well, changing blacks last move in the puzzle would change things most likely, resulting in a P2 win.

If the puzzle stands as shown however, i still stand by my prediction of outcome,
and as you know, Pente_gon says he solved it on a board and agrees with my solution, whereby after a series of moves, black has a split 3 that goes unblocked, white then blocks the solid 3, black now can make what ever move, yet ultimately white wins.

at some point we look forward to karl having a go at it as Black.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
valandir

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Registered: Apr 28, 2022
Re: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Posted: Apr 28, 2022, 8:39 PM

my suggestion would be:
14 K8 M9
15 K11 K9
16 L9 K9
17 O5
now black cannot play O9 as then white would capture too many stones.

I have to admit, that I placed the stones on the board.

Greetings from a chess and Go player

watsu

Posts: 1,306
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Posted: Apr 28, 2022, 9:04 PM

Thank you for that solution, valandir! I recently received a lesson from valandir on playing some different abstract games and when I learned he was a Go player I thought he might be interested in this Pente position.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
etyrnal

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Re: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Posted: May 18, 2022, 7:07 PM

"without moving pieces around on a board"

i thought the idea was to NOT use a visual aid -- whether physical board/pieces, or a digital board/pieces?

watsu

Posts: 1,306
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Posted: May 18, 2022, 7:24 PM

Well, that was the challenge I set, though my idea was along the lines of "you've just arrived at this position in an over the board (IRL) timed/rated game, perhaps in a swap2 Pente tournament being held in London in August's mind sports olympics. What happens next in the game?" So far, I don't think there have been any solvers who have successfully attempted it as I originally stated it, though, unless Valandir just placed the pieces up to the position as a visual aid without placing any further stones to arrive at his solution. Based on Valandir's blindfold Go and chess prowess, I have no doubt he could have solved it successfully without using a board, had he chosen to.


Message was edited by: watsu at May 18, 2022, 7:38 PM

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
karlw

Posts: 956
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Deep Pente waters; what happens next?
Posted: May 21, 2022, 1:54 AM

I just looked at the 14...K8 line more deeply (at first I tried to respect watsu's request to not play moves on the board), and I stand in agreement. After valandir's sequence

14 K8 M9
15 K11 K9
16 L8** (fixing a typo) K9
17 O5

P2 doesn't have a counter to P1 playing O9 on the next move. Capping at H14 still leaves P2 one capture shy at the end. The critical test is 17...L10!, but P1 has a beautiful tactical defense to that begins with 18 G11.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
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