Posts:
437
Registered:
Jan 23, 2009
From:
north carolina
Age:
48
tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 10, 2010, 4:28 PM
ok... i REALLY hate to do this as i am a low-key guy and do not wish to stir the pot or offend others. i am having a serious problem w/ the lack of enforcement of tourney rules.The following were on the table: player1, observer1, observer2, observer3, observer4, player2, observer5, observer6, observer7, observer8, and two guests
First game:
observer2: vgg * game over, player1 wins the game. * * updating tournament standings, please wait * * tournament standings have been updated * * server switched your seats for the next game * player1: gg
Second game:
Approx. 1 minute left on each timer
observer6: i know, sssh observer2: TIME!! observer8: [observer2]....pls observer8: let themlaY observer8: PLAY * game over, player1 wins the game. set over, player1, wins the set! * * updating tournament standings, please wait * * player1's rating has gone from 1885 to 1894. * * player2's rating has gone from 1554 to 1546. * * tournament standings have been updated * * this tournament match is complete! * player1: gg
the site admin, up2ng, clearly stated at the beginning of the tournament that there was to be NO discussion of the game during play.he also specifically stated that there was to be no mention of the timer.this has been violated several times now. i approached up2ng privately w/ my concerns at first in the hopes of resolving this after the first set was played.however, we have now finished the third set and this inappropiate behavior continues.this is a copy/paste from last nights tournament...... i personally believe that saying gg, vgg or any other acknowledgement of a win prior to the win by anyone other than the players involved is a violation. furthermore, the time clock rule has been clearly violated. we set these rules to ensure fairness to all players involved.for the sake of each players right to a fair game, PLEASE, lets keep it clean.
Message was edited by: up2ng at Mar 13, 2010 2:09 PM
I edited this message well after the fact to censor the usernames involved in the chat. This should be how chat is posted from now on, if ever.
Posts:
2,233
Registered:
Mar 4, 2007
From:
San Francisco
Age:
45 Home page
Re: tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 10, 2010, 11:20 PM
i agree, in tourney play timers are apart of the strategy. 3rd parties informing of time troubles is kibitzing. it can cause the out come to be altered. any players that have been seen doing this can by all means be asked to leave future tables, and can be booted when they refuse to leave. i suggest a one time verbal warning to these violators. and the next time they do it just 86 them from future tourney tables, or any rated table for that matter. they can still participate in tourneys as a player, but may not be present on a tourney table as a spectator.
kibitzing is cheating in rated games, no back seat drivers allowed.
keep in mind, the players of a table have full rights to conduct their matches privately. there is no rule stating that they must allow spectators. spectators can view the games in the database after if they wish.
allow spectators at your own discretion. private tables are allowed in tourney matches. booting is ok. using the ignore player chat button is allowed too. wrong me once then shame on you, wrong me twice then shame on me.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Posts:
124
Registered:
Jun 8, 2008
From:
Stillwater, Oklahoma Banned: For abuse of mm_ai8
Re: tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 11, 2010, 12:46 AM
Well said. But I'd be willing to bet that this spectator was just trying to help a friend, not meaning to take sides. Never the less, we should all be careful.
Posts:
437
Registered:
Jan 23, 2009
From:
north carolina
Age:
48
Re: tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 11, 2010, 12:58 AM
hmmmm...... your words are gracious and forgiving jack. i appreciate that.... but "helping a friend" is a direct violation of tournament rules and should not be tolerated, even if the best of intent was involved.
Posts:
542
Registered:
May 9, 2002
From:
Northeast USA
Re: tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 11, 2010, 1:41 AM
Invictus is absolutely correct on all of his points. Tournament matches are even more formal than rated matches. These types of comments really should not even occur during rated matches but it's generally up to the table owner to allow for as much slack as they want for casual comments like these.
However in tournaments there should be no discussion at all that could even possibly be misconstrued as helping one opponent or the other. Comments that make it sound like there is a sure win should be avoided even if it is obvious to everyone. Comments regarding the timer should DEFINITELY be avoided.
Table owners should not hesitate to boot players extremely quickly from tournament rooms even when it's less than borderline. Warnings are not necessary. This is different from a normal social room, people should not feel disrespected about being booted from a tournament room. In fact, people should feel free to allow certain individuals in and boot others upon entering, especially if they are repeat offenders and cannot be trusted to stick to the rules.
Unfortunately, there is not an easy way to deal with things after this has been violated -- there's not a good way in the software to enforce a replay of the game ... and that might not even be fair to the player who won -- did they win on their own or did they win due to the help received during the game? No one can know for sure. So this formal ettiquette is extremely important. Please everyone make sure that you follow it. In fact, a good rule of thumb is to literally say NOTHING in tournament rooms. Even simple hellos can be distracting.
Unfortunately I was quite sick during the tournament playing time this time around so I could not help monitor the rooms. Please everyone be conscious of this ettiquette going forward.
Perhaps Zoey has a point...if all the tourney games were limited to just the players involved, then this would be a non issue and no one's feelings would be hurt. As he points out - the game is in the DB for review later. Otherwise, there is really no way to ensure that the spectators will follow the rules, and as up2ng points out, the games cannot be replayed even if someone is booted for violating the rules. And also, as he points out, even simple conversation can prove distracting. Simply eliminating spectators seems the easiest solution to ensure fairness in tournaments.
Posts:
2,233
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Mar 4, 2007
From:
San Francisco
Age:
45 Home page
Re: tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 11, 2010, 4:17 AM
agreed, make all tourney matches private tables with only the players and the tourney director(s) allowed to enter.
the only thing i would regret in this action, is that now i would not be able to know the amount of seconds/minutes that had elapsed in the thinking at certain key moves/junctures. this says a lot about some players under certain circumstances. how ever dweebo is recording this data, and if we are lucky, at some point in the future, he will make this information available to us for viewing.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
What could be done is an automated usage of the 'ignore comments from this player' feature already in the software. If the software simply detected each observer entering a table and added them to the list of ignored players for both players playing the game, and then when they leave the room or the game ends they get un-ignored in the player's profile by the program. This way people in the room can talk all they want but the players won't see any of it. It would be like the spectators are behind a soundproof one-way mirror.
Posts:
99
Registered:
Jan 8, 2007
From:
MI
Age:
53 Home page
Re: tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 11, 2010, 4:24 AM
I was not helping Gaylen or Pente Man. They are both my good friends...Ok ...Invictus is perfectly right...but I am not apologized...This is just a GAME...Pente game...relax...And you guys have a boot button...boot me next time and be happy.....
Posts:
2,233
Registered:
Mar 4, 2007
From:
San Francisco
Age:
45 Home page
Re: tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 11, 2010, 4:39 AM
alison's idea is better than mine, how ever mine requires no scripting. simply making the table private is the poor mans fix so to speak.
when you enter a tourney table, leave the players alone, so they can Play.
although ukie was wrong in her action to say "TIME" whether she was aware of what she had done or not, we are wrong to attack her about it publicly. the matter should had been taken care of privately. so, i apologize to you ukie.
vic, normally table talk should not be posted in the forum with out having all peoples consent from the conversation. how ever i think there is a exception to the rule "where, when it is a conversation during a tourney game in mid play that the table chat is allowed for public viewing as long as the table is marked as public". however private channels need to be the first line of action before going public.
Message was edited by: zoeyk at Mar 11, 2010 12:17 AM
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Posts:
437
Registered:
Jan 23, 2009
From:
north carolina
Age:
48
Re: tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 11, 2010, 11:10 AM
as i stated earlier,i tried to resolve this privately to no avail so i thought it necessary to bring the SUBJECT to the light of the pente community. i am VERY sorry to ukie for using her as an example. and why dhould i have to play on a private table or otherwise just because some spectators cannot follow the rules as set forth by the site admin/tourney host? i mean, really!because others cannot control their behavior , you are advocating that i curtail mine? i have no desire whatsoever to lambast anyone....i only seek a fair game.
Posts:
140
Registered:
Mar 8, 2008
From:
georgia
Age:
55 Home page
Re: tourney rules
Posted:
Mar 11, 2010, 4:05 PM
Vic you are so right. And if your at a table that you consider "a game" and your not playing....and you can not keep quite....stay out. Rather than putting the resposibility of the table ownwer to boot you, cause it is merely 5 mins. which is not long enough. I have crossed the line recently, with giving line and clues, I apoligize for it and learned from it.
But to say boot me if ya do not like what I am going to continue to do Ukie ....Is not appropriate. Sounds like you need to have more self control, and just don right RESPECT....it is in the dictionary if your not aware of the english term. So no excuses now.
