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Topic: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Replies: 45   Views: 68,391   Pages: 4   Last Post: Jul 22, 2020, 12:50 AM by: rainwolf

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pente_gon

Posts: 48
Registered: Dec 26, 2017
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 7, 2020, 11:17 PM

According with point 4 of round robin rules:
"...the 2 players with the most points are the winners of the section. If 2 or more players tie, they are all considered winners."

I think that it will be better to change it to:
"the player with the most points are the winner of the section. If 2 or more players tie, they are all considered winners"


karlw

Posts: 961
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 8, 2020, 12:13 AM

Well, having the top 2 players from each section advance is actually a good safeguard against the situation I described. If only the top finisher advances and richard does get put in the same section as you, me or another top player (which is very likely), then we could have a top player leaving after round 1, which seems undesirable. This way, it will almost certainly be richard and the other top player advancing. Same applies to zoey, who is also seeded well below his skill.

Having 2 advance from each section means more rounds, and round robin rounds tend to be longer, but the 2 day per move time control should help the tournament move at a decent pace. The only thing I'm worried about is the ability to buy vacation time, but rainwolf is less concerned about that than he ought to be.

The other alternative is to have seeds assigned independent of TB ratings. This is the ideal scenario, but I don't think everyone would agree on the seedings. My recommendation would be

1 pente_gon
2 be_water
3 karlw
4 madhippo
5 spavacz
6 zoeyk
7 richardiii

and then the rest seeded according to TB rating.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
watsu

Posts: 1,339
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 8, 2020, 12:24 AM

Based on the number of qualified entrants, it's likely to be 5 sections, so zk and rich are likely paired in a section with a top 5 rated player regardless of how they are seeded, just not necessarily with one of the top 3 seeds by rating.


Message was edited by: watsu at Jul 8, 2020, 12:26 AM


Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
karlw

Posts: 961
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 8, 2020, 1:30 AM

With 21-24 people, it will be divided into 6 sections:

21 - 4 4 4 3 3 3
22 - 4 4 4 4 3 3
23 - 4 4 4 4 4 3
24 - 4 4 4 4 4 4

25 is same as 21 but with one more section of 4, etc.

RW, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: RW corrected me

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
rainwolf

Posts: 730
Registered: Apr 12, 2008
From: Singapore
Age: 43
Home page
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 8, 2020, 2:00 AM

at first glance, the formula for the number of sections seems to be (#players + 3)/4 (integer division), so that means from 21 to 24 players, it's 6 sections.

\_(?)_/
watsu

Posts: 1,339
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 8, 2020, 2:02 AM

Ah, okay that makes sense. I just saw the 3-5 players per section part and didn't dig into the examples deeply enough; in that case 25 entrants would go into 7 sections, in which case a section of 5 players wouldn't be needed. I guess it may depend on whether things are rounded up or down whether a fifth player in one section would be preferred to more sections with three players...


Message was edited by: watsu at Jul 8, 2020, 2:04 AM


Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
karlw

Posts: 961
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 8, 2020, 2:08 AM

I also saw the 3-5 players per section, and then examined previous round robin tournaments. I guess 5 people might only happen in the special case that there's exactly 5 people remaining.

Right now we have exactly 24 viable entrants, which is right on the cutoff between 6 sections and 7. If one more player joins, we may have 7 sections and thus a very different division. Hard to prepare for your opponents...

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
rainwolf

Posts: 730
Registered: Apr 12, 2008
From: Singapore
Age: 43
Home page
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 8, 2020, 2:10 AM

The code and the documentation seem to indicate that once upon a time it could have been max 5 per section, but was changed later to 4.

The only exception is that when there are 6 players or less, they will be placed in a single section. I'm not sure if this an omission. Shouldn't 6 players still be sectioned in 3 - 3, and only 5 players or less in 1 section?

\_(?)_/
karlw

Posts: 961
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 8, 2020, 2:13 AM

I kind of like having 6 people put in a big section, because especially near the end where it's all top players, 2 sections of 3 could just result in two 3-way ties, and then no progress is made. With 6, you're much more likely to have 2 or 3 fail to advance, which is what you want.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
watsu

Posts: 1,339
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 8, 2020, 2:14 AM

Yeah, two sections of 3 each might make sense for a tournament with only 6 entrants, so a single section for 5 players would likely be the only time you'd have 5 in a section.


Message was edited by: watsu at Jul 8, 2020, 2:15 AM


Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
pente_gon

Posts: 48
Registered: Dec 26, 2017
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 9, 2020, 10:02 PM

Even more funny is fact that me and Richardiii will play in same section in round2 (if both of us advance which is likely). By the way it is also possible that Zoeyk will join us.

But if me and Richardiii advance to Round3... guess what? Yes, most likely we will play in same section one more time even if there will be more than one section.

So in this tournament we are destined to each other

karlw

Posts: 961
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 10, 2020, 8:11 PM

One would hope that there is an override to prevent players from being assigned to the same section in consecutive rounds.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
watsu

Posts: 1,339
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 10, 2020, 10:11 PM

Holding steady at 23 qualified entrants. Will a brave vint.ee player step forward and coax me in so there are 7 sections? Stay tuned...
ETA: personally, I wouldn't hold my breath for 7 sections.


Message was edited by: watsu at Jul 10, 2020, 11:08 PM


Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
karlw

Posts: 961
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 11, 2020, 1:39 AM

Hard to comprehend your behavior here, watsu. Through the tireless recruitment of myself and others, we somehow managed to create a tournament with 7 top players from the last 20 years of pente history, many of whom may never play in a tournament like this again. Meanwhile, you're sitting on the sidelines waiting for another player to sign up before you will? Seems silly and childish--either you can play or you can't. I wouldnt pass up this opportunity if I were you.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
watsu

Posts: 1,339
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Vacation days for Pente Masters 2020
Posted: Jul 11, 2020, 2:03 AM

I don't really feel like I have time to devote to it or a good chance even if I did have time. The only thing that might give me a potential bit of advantage is knowledge of how some of the top Estonians play. I thought I already made that clear earlier...
ETA: and yes I do think I helped in the recruitment so that you'd have a great tourney. All the best of luck and fun with it. Consider my relic 2799 rating permanently retired.


Message was edited by: watsu at Jul 11, 2020, 2:03 AM


Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
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