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Topic: using database during turnbased games
Replies: 25   Views: 20,010   Pages: 2   Last Post: Jul 31, 2020, 7:04 AM by: watsu

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xenophon

Posts: 19
Registered: Apr 19, 2011
From: Terra
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Mar 28, 2014, 8:31 PM

There's a database? Where is this database? If you are using it I want to know where it is and what within it you are using.

I always thought turn based was so that you could play without being online devoted to play at the same time. Then again I have played against people I thought were running a program to play for them.


cfisch

Posts: 35
Registered: Mar 2, 2009
From: Central Texas
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Mar 28, 2014, 8:50 PM

Log into pente.org -- go to your Dashboard.

Right under the BIG ORANGE 'Strategy Center' stripe.

First BLUE button!



dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Oct 28, 2017, 9:13 PM

This is an old thread, but I didn't find anything in the rules that seems to have been updated to address this question.

Based on how the rules are written, it would seem that the correct interpretation would be that using the database is NOT allowed in turn-based games.

If I missed something in the rules that clarifies this, my apologies.

Otherwise, I think it would be useful to add a clarifying sentence in any section of the rules that pertain to this issue.

For example: "In turn based play, players can utilize various resources, including, but not limited to, the database. It is not acceptable, however, to input the game position against the computer AI and ask the AI what move to make."

This policy would be consistent with other turn-based sites (Brain King, IYT, etc.) and also with my general understanding of turn-based games, chess in particular.

brf

Posts: 172
Registered: Jan 23, 2002
From: Forest Grove, Oregon
Age: 47
Home page
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Oct 30, 2017, 10:28 PM

really, resurrecting this again?

well my thoughts speak for themselves in the prior posts and really nowadays (As zoey also intimated) there are a dozen ways to do this offline now anyway. It's not something that can be "stopped" nor would I want it to be, doesn't affect me at all but not allowing my opponents the resources to improve their gameplay or increase their knowledge and understanding of the board position during gameplay...to me seems short-sighted. Why become a paying member then?

and believe me IYT and brainking don't have a database but many players at those sites still use whatever resources they have during turn-based play. Why have time limit measured in "days" if not to study all resources to determine the "Best move you can find"? I'll say it again...it is accepted and moreover preferred by the better players to play the best game possible, through study this is much more likely.

-Brf

dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Oct 31, 2017, 12:34 AM

Everything Brf said is on target.

All the more reason for the rules to be very specifically written out so there is no confusion. I've only been active again for 2 months, so I didn't see this old thread until very recently. It's obvious that when these posts were written in this thread, there was some confusion or misunderstanding over the old phrasing of the rules that were written by Dweebo during a time that predated turn-based play on this site and hadn't been updated to reflect turn-based play.

Being that this thread is rather old, I figured the matter had been addressed, especially since the site is almost entirely turn-based now.

And that's why I revived this thread; I wasn't able to see anything indicating that the rules have been updated, and what I did find in the rules almost seems to indicate that players aren't supposed to use the database for any games at Pente.org (Even though that makes little to no sense and I doubt is what's intended to be the understood rule).

On a side note -

I HATE HATE HATE the "street signs" test for not being a robot. I've never once gotten it right, and then I need to do the car one. Am I supposed to be including the pictures that have the sign pole even if no part of the actual sign is in the square? Am I supposed to be including adjacent squares that look like they might have one nano-pixel of street sign on it from a neighboring square? AAAAAARGh!!!

zoeyk

Posts: 1,981
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 41
Home page
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Oct 31, 2017, 2:57 AM

I prefer they use db. Makes it easier for me to use premeditated novelty move.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
zoeyk

Posts: 1,981
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 41
Home page
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Oct 31, 2017, 3:00 AM

Dmitri, yes captcha loves nano pixels.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
mandragora

Posts: 4
Registered: Jan 18, 2016
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Nov 1, 2017, 11:56 PM

Personally I've never used any database and just have fun with my moves.

I did learn a lot playing a load of live games against the computer but never deliberately tried to recreate any turn based positions.

leebase

Posts: 3
Registered: May 25, 2020
Age: 55
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Jul 30, 2020, 6:06 AM

Didn't know databases exist. Would explain how one of my regular opponents just beats me time and again, very quickly.

I would hope the rules of the site would be the rules. If I want to play a computer, I would just play a computer.

Speaking of which....there is a big difference between using a database and using a computer to "work out a position". That should definitely be a no no.

Opinions are opinions. Mine is no better and certainly not authoritative. But, as such...I'm with "no database or computer use for rated games". Even if "everybody does it".

watsu

Posts: 1,012
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Jul 30, 2020, 1:12 PM

If one of your regular opponents beats you very quickly, time and again as both first player AND as second player, most likely they are simply a much better player than you currently are. Most games are basically over as a win for the first player by move 5 or sooner, but that doesn't mean all the possibilities are spelled out in the games contained in the database. The database is only the beginning, and is often incorrect. And players with TB ratings 500 or more rating points above yours still play lines which are sure losses for P1 by move 3 and the database basically is a pretty good indicator of that, so I wouldn't get too concerned about your regular opponent's presumed DB use. I use it all the time. If you want me to look at your opp's games and tell you whether or not they do, I probably can make a pretty good assessment if you message me their ID.
ETA: the live game room has a block against DB use during rated games, so you could try inviting opponents to play you live games and see how well they do if you think they use the database in TB games. As I said, I do use it, so obviously my live game isn't as good as my TB game, but a lot of that is because I haven't bothered to memorize the best openings. I still do alright in live play without the DB. Not as good as the best live players, but not too badly.


Message was edited by: watsu at Jul 30, 2020, 1:31 PM


I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
watsu

Posts: 1,012
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: using database during turnbased games
Posted: Jul 31, 2020, 7:04 AM

One of the issues I have with this recurring zombie thread is that aside from Pente, most variants are very poorly represented in the database. Since the variants are generally more complex and/or fairer games, it seems like players grousing about database use would take one or more of the variant games up. Or play live rated games of speed Pente here. Alas, that hasn't happened nearly enough in the decade or so this thread has been around.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
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