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Topic: What happened to US Pente Association?
Replies: 19   Views: 11,514   Pages: 2   Last Post: Feb 10, 2021, 3:20 PM by: watsu

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t0afer

Posts: 28
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 28
What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 7, 2021, 10:26 PM

Anyone know what happened to the US pente association or if there?s any interest in bringing something more official back?

I think pente is still pretty popular, enough that winning moves has been able to keep a published edition out for awhile now. Not to mention the traffic here which is more than can be said for some abstracts.

Thinking it be could be something smaller and focused like the US Tak association which is a relatively new org for a 2017 connection game.

Set up linked online places to discuss the game (website, reddit, discord, instagram, etc.), host tournaments with small prizes, and crown champions and do some promotion work. Tournaments should play around with swap2 per my previous thread probably.

Plus if it gets going it might be able to cooperate with the International Renju federation in the future?



watsu

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Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 7, 2021, 11:35 PM

Back circa 2004, there was an attempt at a World Pente Players Federation. We had an online meeting or two, Tom Braunlich participated with several active (at that time) players on this site. Then the main organizer gave up on it, the website lapsed, etc. I think swap 2 is the way forward and since that's a relatively new concept for gomoku it might be worth another attempt. Winning Moves would probably have to get on board with new rules for tournaments in order for it to get enough traction. I've corresponded a few times over the years with Tom B. and might have Gary Gabrel's contact info around somewhere as well...

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
t0afer

Posts: 28
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 28
Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 12:29 AM

Who would need to be contacted first/brought together to make it happen? You think winning moves would be more interested in adopting swap2 official of Braunlich and Gabrel were on board and throwing their weight around? And would they be interested?

Also I know it was a while back but I saw that thread of Rollie Tesh and ZoeyK?s match. Is he still around, interested, or contactable?

watsu

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Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 12:40 AM

Whether Braunlich and Gabrel would be interested or not, I can't say, but I think Winning Moves would likely give more weight to their thoughts about it than to an email from me, you or for that matter rainwolf. Unfortunately, Rollie Tesh passed away a couple of years ago.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
t0afer

Posts: 28
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 28
Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 12:46 AM

Oh shoot, sorry to hear that. I had no idea. May he rest in peace.

Sounds like contacting them may be the first foot forward then. The other option would be to contact winning moves with a detailed proposal?

watsu

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Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 1:25 AM

Maybe penteman can help out with some references to swap rules proposed in the old Pente newsletters? Tom Braunlich apparently got rid of his collection of old newsletters a decade or so ago when he moved. I seem to remember that one of the proposed rule changes for tournaments going forward from 1984 involved swaps, but I don't know the details on the exact rule change proposed. D Pente was proposed sometime circa 20 years ago, I think. Then, linking to the switching of swap gomoku to swap 2. I think approaching either Winning Moves or Braunlich/Gabrel followed by Winning Moves would have better luck with both a proposal and some evolutionary history.

ETA: I looked back at the limited online newsletter pages and didn't immediately find a reference to swap as an option considered in 1984, so I may be remembering incorrectly.


Message was edited by: watsu at Feb 8, 2021, 1:32 AM


I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
watsu

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Registered: Dec 16, 2001
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Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 2:21 AM

I think pente_gon, karlw and zoeyk would all be able to come up with more challenging unfamiliar positions to analyse in a single swap 3 stone board position than I know, but I can think of three off the top of my head that I would do a swap 2 on if I weren't familiar with them; some examples of why the swap 2 rule is necessary to make a real time single game tournament matchup are probably a good thing to include.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
mikaelh

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Registered: Nov 24, 2016
From: Sweden
Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 3:15 AM

New attempts to form a World Pente Players Federation would be very welcome! With tournaments in different variations of the game.

t0afer

Posts: 28
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 28
Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 3:40 AM

I looked briefly through some online pente newsletters as well and didn?t see anything. I?ll keep looking.

On the bright side I found surefire citation material to make sure Keryo Pente isn?t removed from the Wikipedia page again

t0afer

Posts: 28
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 28
Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 3:43 AM

I kind of suck at keryo, but playing it live in a Pente World Federation tournament would be a dream.

watsu

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Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 3:48 AM

I can commit to writing up a brief analysis of a few different three stone swap proposals which anyone unfamiliar with the lines would struggle to choose a winning side and line for in a live game. Beyond that, I don't think I'd be able to help out much on a proposal currently.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
t0afer

Posts: 28
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 28
Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 4:12 AM

If you choose those three lines, plus why swap2 might help correct it, plus add data on swap2 from gomoku it would be a good start for sure.

I?m not super helpful analyzing swap lines yet either honestly. Pretty green, but we could probably outsource it with several people doing different analyises (analysi?) and buidling the proposal from that.

How detailed should it be you think to be strong enough?

watsu

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Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 4:42 AM

I made a start on it here. I didn't mention the three stone position 1. C15 F14 2. F15 but that would be challenging for similar reasons to the first example and there might also be some placements of the stones where a 2. ... E13 fourth move might have some play as well (I haven't analysed it to that degree yet).

https://pente.org/gameServer/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=27&threadID=232563

As far as detail goes, it needs to be simple enough for an enthusiastic Pente fan with some theory under their belt to follow without too much difficulty by pushing stones around for an hour or two, but not so detailed as to bog it down, just to make the point. Maybe an example of a definite swap 2 gomoku line for good measure.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
t0afer

Posts: 28
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 28
Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 10:04 PM

Well then I think your three lines from swap pente, the statistics I got on first player advantage in Pro Rule Gomoku vs swap2 Gomoku, and then some lines in Gomoku might be enough.

Are there any high level Gomoku players here that could do an analysis for us?

watsu

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Registered: Dec 16, 2001
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Re: What happened to US Pente Association?
Posted: Feb 8, 2021, 10:23 PM

Pente_gon is probably one of the best players here, I think. Zoltan Lazlo's (lz9) swap 2 gomoku proposal of 1. H4 G12 2. C3 used multiple times in August's MSO tourney:
https://www.vint.ee/en-gb/tournament/result/164825/ is probably a very good example of a position where swap 2 is theoretically better than picking a side to play from during a live game, though.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
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