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Replies: 30   Views: 74,605   Pages: 3   [ Previous | 1 2 3 | Next ]
watsu

Posts: 1,269
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 4, 2020, 9:07 PM

It's definitely a factor, but whether it's the primary factor, I'm doubtful. We used to have a lot more active reds here in the old days before TB became played here to any great degree. They mostly retired from playing live games before draws didn't penalize the higher rated player. Ratings inflation due to draws not counting in ratings for 13 years or so is a bigger factor in the high ratings and high number of reds in TB than the DB, IMO. Give me no DB access and draws not counting in my ratings, and I'd come out of retirement, gain rating points and say come at me killa...

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat

invictus

Posts: 314
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 4, 2020, 9:19 PM

as a man of honor i would take you at your word if we simply agreed to no database.
hence my surprise as i assumed that was the norm and didn't need to be agreed upon beforehand.
as for the points system... i have no control over that.

bloodied but unbowed
tin_can

Posts: 26
Registered: Jun 1, 2019
From: Richardson, TX
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 4, 2020, 9:29 PM

Just curious, was it through chat that you discovered someone was using the DB? Is this widespread?

I kinda feel at a disadvantage if that is the norm...😒

Granted I can point to my typical circle of players, and we tend to play "live" on the TB system when our schedules line up.

invictus

Posts: 314
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 4, 2020, 9:33 PM

ironically (?), i learned it on a live table while chatting during a game.

bloodied but unbowed
invictus

Posts: 314
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 4, 2020, 9:45 PM

and i still like the idea of being able to select whether to block the database for a clean game or unblock it for learning purposes.

bloodied but unbowed
watsu

Posts: 1,269
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 4, 2020, 9:50 PM

I told vic that it's not uncommon for TB players at the top of the game to use the DB based on having played against quite a few of them over the years. Back in the early 2010s I was in a TB tournament at Brainking and another player here and I recreated an incomplete game in the db here by two master players and then played it out to the finish. Though, come to think of it, it might have been a game from IYT which wasn't in the DB.


Message was edited by: watsu at Apr 4, 2020, 9:51 PM

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
invictus

Posts: 314
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 4, 2020, 10:05 PM

and if its true that the database sometimes leads players down the wrong path, then that is no consolation. doesnt that sour the victor's win as well since all one accomplished was defeating a weak line in the db?

bloodied but unbowed
watsu

Posts: 1,269
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 4, 2020, 10:10 PM

I think you're misunderstanding, my friend. If I can recognise a weak P1 line which a top player has played or is likely to play TB and get them to play it against me TB, that's a triumph in my book. I saw a flaw in a line played by Pente_gon a few years back and invited him to play a set so that I could show him the flaw. At the time, his TB set record was around 50-0. I didn't play it for points, we cancelled the set. And no, I'm not sharing what the line or the flaw were here. Find it yourself.


Message was edited by: watsu at Apr 4, 2020, 10:13 PM

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
whome123

Posts: 7
Registered: Sep 25, 2018
Age: 99
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 7, 2020, 1:51 AM

Please don't stop playing subscribers. I was gifted mine. I have never used the database to strategize the best move in a turn based game. I would also consider that cheating. I see enough mistakes made to know the players I play are probably also not using the database.

I am red for now but usually very temporary.

I wonder if there is a way to analyze differentiation from the database best move and have a score on each person's profile. If the score is very high, it is likely that the person is accessing the database.

It might also be useful to show a trail of where a player has been on the site to compare your game with the database games accessed by your opponent.

Just keeps all a bit more accountable.

That said, that is why I love live SPEED pente.

Now that we all have a bit more time we can use our evil for good.

whome123

Posts: 7
Registered: Sep 25, 2018
Age: 99
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 7, 2020, 1:51 AM

Please don't stop playing subscribers. I was gifted mine. I have never used the database to strategize the best move in a turn based game. I would also consider that cheating. I see enough mistakes made to know the players I play are probably also not using the database.

I am red for now but usually very temporary.

I wonder if there is a way to analyze differentiation from the database best move and have a score on each person's profile. If the score is very high, it is likely that the person is accessing the database.

It might also be useful to show a trail of where a player has been on the site to compare your game with the database games accessed by your opponent.

Just keeps all a bit more accountable.

That said, that is why I love live SPEED pente.

Now that we all have a bit more time we can use our evil for good.

rainwolf

Posts: 722
Registered: Apr 12, 2008
From: Singapore
Age: 40
Home page
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 7, 2020, 2:07 AM

I'm not going to track and tag players who use the database in turn-based.

brf has posted here, on more than one occasion, how all is fair in turn-based play, and I quite agree with his arguments.

One thing to note though, is that in the mobile apps, the database is enhanced with a button where you can ask the AI for their best next move. You can't do that in the desktop database version. This might be possible in dweebo's standalone app though, I am not sure.

\_(?)_/
whome123

Posts: 7
Registered: Sep 25, 2018
Age: 99
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 7, 2020, 4:07 AM

The suggestions were not to shame anyone. Actually, I would appreciate the metric to gauge my own game playing progress.

watsu

Posts: 1,269
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 7, 2020, 8:35 AM

Historical context from the forum:
https://pente.org/gameServer/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=15&threadID=4648&start=0&tstart=0

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
watsu

Posts: 1,269
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: naive
Posted: Apr 7, 2020, 10:25 PM

Uh, invictus... back in 2014 you seemed okay with db use in TB games in that forum post I just linked to.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
leebase

Posts: 3
Registered: May 25, 2020
Age: 55
Re: naive
Posted: Jul 31, 2020, 5:32 AM

Fond memories of Pente in a tube

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