Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 9, 2015, 4:54 PM
I think so. Sometimes I play it a bit before I need to work on a project to help my mind focus. It's also good when I'm really stressed out and just need to chill for a bit.
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 10, 2015, 10:01 AM
Who said anything about work? Yes, work it's a area of life. But i was talking about all life, not just work. Other thing: A person can not enjoy work? One more: I was not saying that someone should play pente just because it might help you in another part of your life (this was your point?). But I understand your criticism. Yet, I 'm not your target. The title was more like a joke.
PS: i am talking with xtraclassy. I thank you for your aswer katysmon!I do the same thing. But I guess I didn't express myself well. I was wondering if the skills we develop on pente can be utilized in other areas of our lives. Any thoughts on that?
Message was edited by: zappazappa at Jan 10, 2015 10:03 AM
Message was edited by: zappazappa at Jan 10, 2015 10:15 AM
Posts:
66
Registered:
Dec 13, 2008
From:
New York City
Age:
58
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 10, 2015, 4:47 PM
define:work
"activity involving mental or hysical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result."
----from google.com
Any activity one may engage in because because of "what it does for them" is an integral part of the definition of the economic activity most people call work.
If anyone actually proves that playing pente has any beneficial side effects, I, for one, will certainly stop playing it. lol!
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 10, 2015, 6:45 PM
lol
okay. Your definition is good. But I do not think you should belive that this work definition would encompass only a job. By your definition, masturbate to achieve an orgasm is also work. lol
But again:"I was not saying that someone should play pente *only* because it might help you in another part of your life"
Posts:
31
Registered:
Sep 27, 2013
From:
Germany Home page
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 10, 2015, 7:42 PM
Xtra, I hope you don't find any disrespect in what I want to say..it's not intended as such at all...
I find it pretty hard to believe that you (or anybody at all) seriously (seem to) doubt that playing abstract strategic games in general (or especially Pente..) has (countless!) positive "beneficial" side effects in or for real life..
and on the contrary I'd consider it pretty easy to "prove" those effects.. ( I'm thinking about recognization and application of rules, comprehensibility of own and opponent's actions that lead to expected results, ability to analyze mistakes to adapt actions to winning strategy, handling of emotions, planning -and decision making cometence, just to mention a few examples......)
However I prefer not to try any argumentation proving at all in this case, because the price -that you "will certainly stop playing it"- would be too high...
Posts:
66
Registered:
Dec 13, 2008
From:
New York City
Age:
58
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 10, 2015, 9:04 PM
LoL! That may explain why you've been beating me up lately, Lupes! You have found a way to quantify and measure a person's "handling of emotions", and ability to "think properly"? before and after pente playing over a defined period of time?
__Regards. Just having fun here, Lupes!
Message was edited by: xtraclassy at Jan 10, 2015 10:00 PM
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 10, 2015, 9:52 PM
hi lup I liked the things you said, I also can realize them (though I am not as easily as you to list all the skills that are exercised playing a game like pente). My difficulty and doubt are in another aspect of the matter. I believe these skills are in fact cultivated. But I think its transposition into other areas of life where we use intelligence is not automatic or necessary (at least not entirely). Perhaps proof of this is that xtraclassy and katysmon do not understand very well what I was talking about. I believe that to make this transposition is necessary to find a way to abstract what you learn playing the game. To, then, be able to connect this abstract content with another area of your life where you need to use intelligence. The site that you indicated in your post is a great help for this abstraction capacity I am talking about. But I still think these points you put up are too general. I think I'm looking for a more direct thing. Something like what be_water said about a guide to the creative process. A set of steps and learning strategies. Anyway, I do not know if anyone would have patience and ability to talk about that or be abble to suggest a text. be_water, something to say about it? Someone else?
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 11, 2015, 6:30 PM
Hey fish, I am sorry for that. "necessary" the opposite of contingency. What have 100% of chance of happen. contingency = something that may or may not happen.
Posts:
35
Registered:
Mar 3, 2009
From:
Central Texas
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 11, 2015, 7:35 PM
thank you Zappa -- that helps me understand better.
You offer a very interesting idea here. Although I have to wonder how many folks would immediately comprehend the subtle implications...and the profundity therein.
BTW: This is the most interesting conversation I've seen on the forum in quite a while. Easily the most stimulating discussion I've encountered here recently.
Posts:
35
Registered:
Mar 3, 2009
From:
Central Texas
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 12, 2015, 6:11 AM
It strikes me that there can be distinctions drawn between the amazing human capacities relating to human abstraction...and those of or relating to human impetus. They are, I suggest, different critters (ideas) altogether.
Classically, human impetus is said to be the source of what we talk about as 'motivation'. ((And for purposes at hand I'm referring to the various 'reasons' folks come here to play pente)). -- We can be sure people play pente for their own (individually conceptualized) reasons. And what they gain from doing so is...again... individually conceptualized. Whether or not there is 'abstraction' involved in the conceptualization process.. I have no clue.
But with respect to the other (more subtle) notions of how we express *applied* human intelligence (and yes, .. even notions of some pre-applied abstraction which is then transposed through a transformation/transference process [zappa]),..I think that is very possible. To be sure, this is an ocean of thought; a vast ocean into which sensitive men & women have tried to invest their inquiry. I have tried (a little)...but it didn't take long for this fisch to feel like he might drown.
---------------- Of course this ain't no original tinkering-around on my part with such ideas. I claim no brilliant thinking myself. But I thank you for opening the age-old can-o-worms again mi amigo! -----------------
You can relax Pulo, those up to your speed fully well appreciate the multi-aspected personal rewards they garner by playing pente. And Xtraclassy? ... well.. I suspect he's just funn'n around a bit.
I don't know Zappa' -- I like the idea that the human being is fundamentally an abstract thing a la a' priori. -- Feels right to me.
So many people throughout the ages have posed the question of whether it's even possible for consciousness to accurately self-perceive. That's mind-boggling enough itself,..but to me the really interesting part is how (and where from) does the human impetus spring forth. (?)
--- but that's just mee... cuz i'm getting older...and the 'ol impetus feels like it's waning... ..... and jus cuz you asked.
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 13, 2015, 2:58 AM
fish
1st post. I thank you for the compliment . I really was in doubt if I had chosen the right place to suggest that subject.
2nd post.
I found your post interesting, it put on the table many subjects that I like very much to discuss. But I 'm not sure if I understood well what you meant in some points.
I think that I understood the general idea of what you said and i can say that I think in a similar way. (but completely disagree that "the human being is an abstract thing Fundamentally a la the ' priori " )
But if I understandood well what you intend to do in your post, I think you did a great job in organizing the controversy surrounding the issue within the following subject: may or may not be dissociation between human impulse ( xtraclassy : I play just because i like ) and sophistication of human capacities (lup 's point).
I hope I had understood you. If not , please help me .
--------
btw, I 'm not sure if we are referring to the same definition of abstraction. I was reffering to the capacity of transform something that is particular in something that is general (objects fall >> gravity law)
Posts:
35
Registered:
Mar 3, 2009
From:
Central Texas
Re: What pente can do for you? lol
Posted:
Jan 14, 2015, 9:56 AM
Zappa. -- I believe you and I closely agree with the definition you suggested for 'abstraction'. Although, I will confess that I have frequently stretched this definition in other conversations many times in the past. I will try to not do that here (if I can .
In a sense, the very idea of 'abstraction'... is (to me) something of an abstraction in and of itself. It feels to me like a self-referential notion. (oh dear... I can't help but say it in a way that must sound cryptic).
In other words, the label 'abstraction' is a term which we (meaning people like me?) seem to use too often without keeping in mind that language itself, in all of its forms, is only a channel or facility by which one's human intent is pressed-forward. I have observed that we all employ language (in several different ways) in the hopes that others will understand, and value, the individualized perceptions and the individualized perspective we offer out to others. And this is what I intended to speak to when I used the term 'impetus'.
I was also suggesting that the motivation I might have to share my assessment of why pente is worthwhile to me individually... necessarily requires me to formulate, or 'generalize', statements which are likely to be a convolution of my own individual estimations with regards to what I perceive as worthwhile. And so therefore the only way (that I can see) for other people to understand (meaning: to comprehend) me, ... is if I can somehow manage to first share very clear alignments in my conceptualized values with my audience. -- I believe they call that "speaking to a derived consensus". --
Certainly there is some kind of consensus of values amongst all people. For example, people all tend to appreciate warmth when it is too cold. And we all agree that food is good when we are hungry. But in many other areas it is abundantly clear that this consensus is neither complete nor easily defined. -- As an example, you apparently do not share my perception or belief that the human being is fundamentally an 'abstract' thing. -- And as another example (albeit in a completely different arena) I can assert that I do not share alignment with the values held by terrorists over in the Middle East.
And so we can agree that different people are motivated by different values. My values are not yours, nor are they necessarily held by anyone else. We may also agree that my values may show some degree of congruity in places with your values, or they may appeal to some other folks as well. But they are 'individualized' values in the sense that I can only live and act from the center-point of my own perceptions. Now I may attempt to take another person's viewpoint (constructs of their unique values) into consideration, but ultimately I am left alone to navigate through life by exercising my own choices. And it seems to me that those choices can only be derived (abstracted) from the nexus of my own self-perceptions. This is why I'm interested in what I previously referred to as the "impetus" for living another day.
So I submit that individualized human values constitute the ground-plane for 'individualized' abstractions of worth. (and btw: I used the term 'conceptualizations' as a synonym previously).
I also submit that they (meaning the values) are, unavoidably, nothing more than condensed extracts (or one might use the term 'abstractions' here too)... with which anyone might try to explain their sense of rewards for playing pente.
--- ((oh..crap!! ))
OK -- Enough of that!
We were originally speaking about what it is that people felt they gained from playing pente. You asked what they thought they received as benefits from playing the game. I assumed you were interested in whether anyone might be willing to speak to the idea of how they translate the specifics of pente (meaning the specific mechanics of executing competitive threats, structure-building, & defense maneuvers)..into something more general; In other words, how people perceive their pente experience as something that translates into other ares of one's everyday life.
And you seemed to be inquiring about a more 'direct' mechanism of how we translate our 'experience' into other domains of challenge in our lives.
Here's something I can share: I am now much more intellectually cognizant of how I might be able maneuver a family member, or a friend, or a stranger,.. into some desired position and/or response. I (choose to) believe this is likely a consequence of playing pente. I try avoid doing so for purely selfish reasons, but I often fail because I am (by virtue of human impetus) basically selfish. You and I have spoken already (to some degree) along those lines.
It is clear to me that the future-looking abstraction skills I have acquired from playing pente have become much more available for use by my conscious intellect. They are often utilized by my conscious motivations to achieve a given end result in my interactions with others.
Unfortunately, I fear that my sub-conscious motivations are.... probably taking advantage of these added skills as well.
))