Topic:
Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
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Jun 3, 2015, 12:04 PM
by:
rainwolf
Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 25, 2013, 5:16 AM
Over the last several years, the number of active players has deminished to what it is today. Obviously, there is a reason for that, but the veteran players who remain will never own their responsibility. Some of these veterans have become abusive, others are just complacent about their friends abusive behavior. But to a guest or new player, the environment has become cold if not hostile. So, before it goes any further, and against the wishes of those who whish to keep this activity hidden, and not allow guests to play here at all, it will be exposed.
Below, is a repost of a conversation recorded from Table 2, on Feb. 24th, 2013, at approx. 11pm. This table, was clearly switched to and designated as a PUBLIC table (as opposed to setting the table to "private"), with m_r_r as the table host. However, some other veteran players who wish to keep this abusive activity hidden, insisted the chat be removed before they would discuss or even acknowledge the abuse. After the offending veteran graciously apologized, and in a show of good faith, I removed the chat within three days of being posted, hoping the entire thread would be deleted. To date, not one single veteran player will even acknowledge that this kind of abuse is wrong. So to provide clearity to this thread, as long as it remains here for anyone to read, the orgininal PUBLIC chat is being reposted.
What it shows, is an example of the suspcious attitude of SOME of the players here, many of which claim to be retired, who feel they have the right to interrogate other players, to the point of cursing at them, in order to intimidate and intentionally discourage new players from joining and growing this community.
Why would another player do this? You would have to ask them directly. My thoughts are that some players were not treated kindly when they first started playing here, and feel the need to break new players in. Others (who have an artificially inflated score from playing newbies) may be insecure about their ranking and want to keep the field of competition small. Some claim to be "retired" and may want to preserve thier glory by not allowing any new players or guests to play at all. Still others seem to have a vested interest in promoting competing websites by sabotaging this one. Whatever the reason, it is wrong to be rude to another player, especially new players, some of whom may be only children.
In the chat below, I am guest558. One player is gracious, the other player not so much. A number of veteran players feel they have the right to be rude to every guest and will resort to cursing until the guest leaves the table. I have no problem defending myself against such nonsense, but where I draw the line, is letting the paranoia of some of the veteran players here scare off potential new members. As clearly shown by the treatment of guest559.
Speculate about the "why" all you want, but the net result is right before our eyes, days and days go by without anyone playing here. I have watched many new players get chased off by this gatekeeping activity, and it is killing (if not already killed) this website.
Even if the "new" player is not really a new player, as long as they are being respectful and friendly under a new identity, they deserve to be treated respectfully.
Further, if there is any duty that is felt by a veteran player, that should be to self-police this website; and any veteran player who witnesses another veteran player bullying another player, their duty should be to let them know they are out of bounds. Not just sit there because they are your friend and say nothing as new players are scared away from playing here. Otherwise, from the perspective of the new player, you agree with the interrogation and intimidation.
Some of you come here sporatically, you play with the same small group of people, and this may be news to you. I make it a practice to play new people, answer questions, show them tactics, etc.; and in general invest in this website by spending a lot of time encouraging new players. More than a few times, I have witnessed these new players finally adopt a name, start playing, and then get grilled by some gatekeeping veteran. Some stay, some dont. Lets see how you feel, if you invest time into coaxing a new player to become a regular player, only to have them chased off by the paranoia of a few players that dont even play here regularly anymore. Multiply that by 50 or more, and you'll understand my outrage.
Here, I am guest558, politely watching two veteran players for about 30 min. Up until this point, all i said was "hi". You can see the interrogation start, become obusive, and then finally spill over to an innocent guest who just happened to come watch or play.
jhs55: ok jhs55: gg m_r_r: hey guest 558 guest558: lol m_r_r: you want to play next guest558: wow m_r_r: wow? does that mean put me in there I am ready? jhs55: what tha hell , its cold, and i live in houston ? m_r_r: how cold is it Jack m_r_r: chance of snow here tomorrow jhs55: not really cold, but iam at the shop , no heaters , its just chilly m_r_r: supposed to rain/snow hee tomorrow with 45 mph winds * game over, jhs55 wins the game * * server switched your seats for the next game * m_r_r: gosh jhs55: gg * game started * m_r_r: gg * undo requested * * undo accepted * jhs55: thxxxx * undo requested * * undo accepted * jhs55: thxxxx * game over, m_r_r wins the game * * server switched your seats for the next game * m_r_r: gg * game started * jhs55: oh jhs55: g m_r_r: hey guest 558 guest558: hey m_r_r: ready yet m_r_r: I will let you have my seat m_r_r: hate for you just to sit and watch for so long guest558: wow guest558: u are the first person to say such a thing guest558: most people just play each other until they are tire, then leave guest558: tired m_r_r: well your up next jhs55: guest jhs55: whats your real name guest558: oh brother guest558: let me ask you something guest558: what is your real fear? jhs55: yeah, your just a little ***** (text has been changed to hide a curse word) m_r_r: it aint snakes guest558: recruiting new players guest558: not your strong suit guest558: amazing jhs55: your a suit guest558: i am here to play pente guest558: not be interogated guest558: but, that is something to fear for some guest558: amazing jhs55: yeah, well, your a big mouth anyway guest558: no telling were paranoia will take you now m_r_r: well gosh never expected all that guest558: me either jhs55: guest is a nobody m_r_r: Hey 558 m_r_r: why dont you join up guest558: in order to be approved to play, there are a few self appointed gatekeepers who in effect are killing this wonderful place to play pente jhs55: thay all ready have guest558: i have been called names m_r_r: oh so you were once a member guest558: suspected of whatever is in someones paranoid mind guest558: nonsense guest558: seriously, what does my "real" name have to do with playing a game? * game over, jhs55 has run out of time * * server switched your seats for the next game * m_r_r: gg jhs55: lol guest558: are you trying to kill the game and this website? jhs55: yes vgg jhs55: guest like you are killing this site m_r_r: jack how about some speed jhs55: noooo m_r_r: after this * point and click on the board to make your moves * * game started * jhs55: play stupid guest guest558: are you drunk or something> guest558: ? jhs55: i am really tired guest558: then stop hassling guests guest558: you know not who you are talking to jhs55: shut up guest558: too bad we are not at a real table boy jhs55: `yikes guest558: new players guest558: more important than you or i guest558: but you are in business to chase them off jhs55: yikes guest558: knock it off m_r_r: my how things have escalated guest558: be friendly guest558: welcome new players jhs55: ok jhs55: i love you guest558: is there something unreasonable or suspicious about that? jhs55: little ***** (text has been changed to hide a curse word) jhs55: lol jhs55: lmfao guest558: chase off new players and laugh about it guest558: brilliant jhs55: guest, you are way too serious, kinda like it was here a few years ago guest558: you are the interrigator guest558: the name caller guest558: the paranoid one jhs55: i got your number guest558: you are killing this website with your attitude jhs55: oh guest558: and it is a shame, jhs55: mybe i should go, but jhs55: ]your a girl jhs55: oh yeah, from downunder guest558: paranoia guest558: pure jhs55: yessssssssssssss * game over, guest558 has run out of time * * server switched your seats for the next game * guest558: lol guest558: gg m_r_r: gg jhs55: this is like the old :kael" days guest558: sorry about that * point and click on the board to make your moves * * game started * jhs55: karlw guest558: listen to yourself * guest559 has entered the table * jhs55: myself m_r_r: hi guest 559 guest558: hello guest 559, welcome to table 2 guest559: hi jhs55: guest 559 is same ******** (text has been changed to hide a curse word) * guest559 has left the table * * game over, m_r_r wins the game * * server switched your seats for the next game * jhs55: see m_r_r: gg
I have no idea who guest559 is/was. To sum up the nonsense that follows, is over 4 pages of lame attempts at distraction from the original point, with the acception of jhs55's honorable acknowledgement and apology.
Message was edited by: bluegreen at Mar 8, 2013 7:36 PM
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Re: Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 25, 2013, 7:31 AM
The above post by "Bluegreen" has been Heavily edited and altered numerous times now from how it was originally written. Thus the reader may have a slightly skewed perception in reading this thread going forward, As our posts in the foregoing were responding to a different Original first post by Bluegreen.
ok, now days normally i wouldnt chime into to this stuff, but i guess i will here.
a few things:
1- we have a social rule that you dont post table chat in the forums, with out first going through proper channels. and, a table chat is something like las vegas, what happens there stays there, or with an admin, and if no admin exists and there was a death threat or threat of violence then you can post in the forums only after you went through proper channels. don't slander unless necessary.
Proper channels: a- send to admin, basically up2ng or dweebo, or send to me and i can forward to dweebo if i feel its worth interrupting his time for. dweebo is busy and would likely roll his eyes at this.
2- do not stereotype publicly all "veteran" players as you put it simply because one guy named jhs55 behaves a certain way. we are all individuals and my character for example is not to be judged based on what he does.
3- If it was Jhs55's table and you didn't like his tone, then: a- leave table b- double click his name and click on ignore player chat.
problem solved on your end.
4- you made a implied threat that if you were at a table with him you would commit a act of violence upon him. two wrongs don't make a right.
5- It is not jhs55's requirement as a member to greet guests, or be a welcoming wagaon. If jhs55 decides to get drunk within his own private table and be beligerent therein, as long as he doesnt break any major rules then it is his right. example of major rules: a- x rated talking, cus we gots kids at this site. b- threats of violence c- pasting urls of pornographic nature or leading to virus's. d- but not limited to. If he does severely cross the line up2ng or even partica can block him from the lobby for 30 days.
6- I understand your concerns, and you have a right to your feelings. and it is ok to address the welcoming wagon topic in the forum. but again, do not slander member's by using their actual names if you did not go through proper channels and thereafter you did not get approval from said admin to begin public slandering.
7- try writing it as a hypothetical situation, with mythical names like john and sally etc.. to get your point across to the members that are not the "target" of your frustration.
8- before typing in here ask your self 3 things:
a- is it true? b- is it necessary? c- is it kind?
in closing, if you want to discuss it you can p.m. me, and when i get a chance i will reply.
take care.
Message was edited by: zoeyk at Mar 10, 2013 3:18 PM
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 25, 2013, 9:35 AM
Zoeyk, your points seem to be standard operating procedure for many people. Which has brought us to this point: few players, and fragile egos. Never mind the fact that a particular veteran was agressive, confrontational, paranoid, and then clearly intimidated guest559 out of table 2. My impression is that you are focusing on invalidating someone who dared to expose his nonsense. Is this a distraction defense?
Point 1: This aint Vegas. As long as people are mistreating others in private, innocent new players are being chased away. Those new players dont come here to the forum and complain, they just go away. Who speaks for them?
Point 2: I did not sterotype "all" veteran players, dont be SO sensitive. Pointing out that this player is a veteran, is saying that he is not a new player who doesnt know any better. This veteran player (as well as a few others) thinks of himself as some kind of gatekeeper. No telling how many guests and new players he and his cohorts have chased away.
Point 3: So are you saying that the host of a table has the right to be rude and offensive to anyone they want? New players are not familiar with things like the "ignore" feature. When they are treated rudely, they just leave.
Point 4: Many rude people on the internet would never treat people in real life they way they mistreat other people here. Because in real life, they are a coward. That is my point, I made no implication of violence, that was YOUR misinterpetation.
Point 5: This is not the first time this veteran or his cohorts have mistreated other players. In fact it happens often. Nor is this the first time that someone has complained about it. And not one time, has anyone been exposed or disiplined for being so paranoid or rude. NOT ONCE!
Point 6: You are a smart person, and I am sure that you know that mislabeling this as Slander/Libel a TOTAL distortion of what is going on here. Slander refers to a false spoken statement of defamation. Libel refers to a false writen statement. This event is factual, with witnesses. Your point 6 is so far off base, that I have serious concerns about you.
Point 7: I will stick to the facts and speak directly. If someone is not man enough to own his own words, thats not my problem. I understand if you dont have the courage to address someone directly, most people dont.
Point 8: Very good advice. Was it true? Absolutely, this happens OFTEN! If you didnt notice, the number of active players is low and shrinking. Was it necessary? Rude Gatekeepers have many defenders. Intimidated new players (like the kids you brought up) have few. Was it kind? I am letting every new player know that not all veteran players are gatekeepers, or are too weak to speak up for what is right.
Point 9: When I posted the text that was copied from the table chat, this website automatically changed the curse words into symbols. Obviously, those words were over the line established by the administrators. I added the notes to let everyone know he had crossed that line. Knowing the actual curse words will not help you defend this persons lack of character.
All that, and not one time did I get the impression that you were outraged by the way two players were treated so rudely. My impresson of your reply is that your main concern seems to be protecting the status quo. Makes me wonder why.
Anyway, to get back on topic, the main point is that we should be polite and assume each new player could be a new champion, or at least a new friend. Sad to say, but ... we shouldnt need to be told to treat each other with respect. And as you can see from the chat, m_r_r was very gracious, thank you.
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Re: Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 25, 2013, 11:45 PM
I apologize for not having time at the moment to respond. I'm under a dead line right now to complete 5 sets of a 35 page Brief with over 60 exhibits, and a slew of court forms for motions, so i will get back to you when i have the head space and time. I will be swamped until after the 28th.
when i do respond i may likely have several contention points of disagreement, and i may also belay several points of concurrence thereto. I shall try to respond using logic, with absence of emotion, in a brief, concise, and specific manner. Additionally, any signs of trolling from any one herein may result in me withdrawing my self from the discussion herein all together.
~z
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
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Re: Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 26, 2013, 3:23 AM
Interesting to know (from this post) that you are not really a new prospective player. Guess JHS figured that out and decided that he did not like being played for a fool on his own table.
Interestingly, flyordie.com has a MUTE GUESTS option for all players, whether they are subscribers or not.
Re: Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 26, 2013, 7:57 AM
Yeah, attack me, that's your only response, because obviously there is no defense of a belligerent mean drunk. Forget about the abuse, and focus on the whistleblower. Wow, do you folks have fragile egos. People often ask me, "Why dont you join?" Ah, well there it is. Zoey, I dont give a hoot about your "points of contention." Please dont waste your time with another lame attempt to distract. No one wants to address the actual problem. I am a member, a veteran, a contributer, and have just as much say-so as any other regular member of this website. Shame on the few of you who condone this behavior. I have no problem defending myself against such nonsence; but it is foolish to drive away players, new or otherwise, just foolish.
I for one, wish karlw still played here, alisontate as well. But apperantly you gatekeepers are afraid of players like them. What's wrong, scared of a girl?
Might have to check out investing in flyordie.com, appearantly others players around here have.
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Re: Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 26, 2013, 11:41 AM
You won't like flyordie as much as you like it here, Alison. Their forum is not as prominently displayed as pente.org's forum. I don't think it has quite the readership you enjoy here.
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Re: Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 26, 2013, 4:10 PM
I play on flyordie on a daily basis. There are some very rude players on there and some very polite players as well. The simple solution is just to avoid or block ones that irritate you, on any live pente site.
Re: Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 26, 2013, 5:38 PM
First let me respond by apologizing to "guest558 and to mr_r_r ", for my rude actions the other night, I believe there is no room for this kind of behavior here. while it is true that i figured out that guest 558 was not new here i was still in the wrong anyway. I am not really sure what " gate keeper " means, but I am not a gate keeper here, i don,t have addmin. powers here.
Re: Sad to say, but this is one of the reasons there are so few new players
Posted:
Feb 26, 2013, 7:48 PM
I appreciate your appology jhs55. I am sure guest559 would appreaciate it as well, if he/she even knew it existed.
This thread has become an excellent example of how smart people think they are smart, but can be wrong. Here, many of you smart people absolutely believe I am alisontate. You are wrong. But there is no way to convince you otherwise.
I DARE to expose something that is driving other players away, and rather than confront the problem directly, the focus turns to me. Just as in Table 2 the other night, that anger and paranoia towards the accuser, gets spilled over to people who are innocent.
I can handle rudeness. BUT WHERE I DRAW THE LINE IS WHEN IT CHASED guest559 OUT OF TABLE 2. Same same for here, paranoia has absolutely convinced some of you that I am alisontate. Her reputataion gets damaged, simply because some of you smart people are not as smart as you think you are.
ANYTHING but address the issue. That issue is simple and impossible to agrue with: TREAT EVERYONE WITH RESPECT.
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Re: Sad to say, but YOU HAVE A HUGE PROPLEM,small man syndrome
Posted:
Feb 26, 2013, 9:11 PM
Hey, Please do not let this offend you. Play with me kriswithak and we will chat and have lots of fun. Sometimes players are just chating, but Do not take offense!!!! Email me and we will play and have a lot of fun.
AFTER READING ALL YOUR REPLYS AND REPOST...I FEEL THE NEED TO BLOCK YOU. GET A LIFE.
Message was edited by: kriswithak at Feb 26, 2013 4:40 PM
Jack, shame on you...