Re: The K9 - L11 Opening. a brief look
Posted:
Jul 20, 2009, 6:56 PM
I don't normally reply to these opening things, as i don't like by-route studies. They give too many players a way to memorize a line sequence, and don't reveal the technique for seeing and solving what a shape means, and how to think of a counter-move.
But in this case I'll try to do both, show a countermove that may or may not work, and I will try to tell how I strategize to come to make such a countermove.
I want to key in on examples 2-5, as example 1 is a dif tangent. I want to key specifically on the faulty logic of white's 8th move at J11.
The primary fault in thinking with this move is that it does not effectively pay attention to Black's overall shape and potential offensive. Because white's J11 is a non-offensive move without sente, black is left free to move wherever he likes, and with black's offensive potential on the right at O11 white effectively hands sente to black, and even though white's J11 does defend well on black's shape on the left, and forms a multi-line offensive potential, such potential is wasted because it immediately looses initiative.
The solution is not very difficult once you understand Black's shape and it's potential. The best way to attack black is to deal on both sides of black's shape interrupting both of black's lines of potential. The only way I can see to do this is by being offensive with White's 8th at O11 forcing black to defend, and then come back with J11 in the 9th move. This does 2 things; it allows white to totally disrupt black's superior position on the right, even though white offers a cap to black, and it keeps potential initiative for white, because black can no longer work the devastating lines he had when he could play O11 himself. Even if black caps he does so at the cost of losing initiative.
I am not saying this tactic will work through to a win, but it is a heck of a lot better than throwing away the game by giving black a free hand.
This is why I am a proponent of understanding shape over simply memorizing moves that work. By understanding black's potential first, it becomes a much simpler matter to come up with a strategy to deal with it. That is what players need to learn.
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Re: The K9 - L11 Opening. a brief look
Posted:
Jul 21, 2009, 2:28 AM
richard thank you very much for your time to comment. not enough players do,..and thats a shame.
any how, this game shows the 2 moves you said,..now white probably did different following moves then you would had,.. but what would you had done differently?
thanks, and im not asking just to get a solution out of you, as i already have my own, but more over giving you something to work with as a example to explain further to other players the concepts your trying to get across.
thanks
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: The K9 - L11 Opening. a brief look
Posted:
Jul 21, 2009, 4:54 PM
There aren't too many options after white's choice for a 10th to comment on a clearly defined superior strategy, but a clear fault with white's sequence here was to abandon his original strategy for playing his 10th, K11, in the first place. His 12th move was a very deflated divergence from his original plan, especially after having paid 2 pairs to achieve it. N11 accomplishes nothing at all, no initiative, no superior shaping, and no defensive advantage. It simply leaves black open to connect 2 lines with a double 3, and all initiative and sente. Having chose to set the course with K11 with his 10th, he should have stayed the course.
But what was it about K11 that made it attractive in the 1st place? Every player needs to understand it's logic in order to understand what I have said about it.
What it sought to achieve was 2 fold. 1st it sought to create a tres with a black pair on the inside end, which it could cap and create shape centered upon the capping stone at N11, hopefully with sente. Now admittedly, it is absolutely necessary to take into account what black could achieve by forming a tres on the 9 line, say at N9, but none the less the idea was to create shape and a cap was clear.
Second, it created a potentially strong cap threat defense on the 11 line vs any offensive black might pose on the 12 line after the caps suffered by forming the line in the first place.
But was that the best strategy? Hmm, not sure, especially with blacks potential on the 9 line out from under the solid 4 cap defensive on the 10 line caused by the caps that broke that up. A 4 in a line cap defensive is only effective if it doesn't get broken up, once it gets broke up with caps, it loses most of it's power to threaten initiative seeking caps on it's ends.
Clearly, the 4 on a line cap defensives on lines 10 and 11 for white needed to be understood in order to play white's 10th at K11. I think I see some potential there, but it is very dicey.
What other moves could white have pursued? Well, clearly G11 was an option, but that pretty much seeks the same objectives as K11, but loses the option for a split4\solid4 option when dealing with the eventual 12 line's offensive that black could try.
The only other reasonable option for white's 10th I see off hand is one more subtitle and oblique, and requires white to truly understand his strength with the 10 line's solid4 cap threats up front, and that is playing one of about 2 or 3 moves on the 8 line. Playing on the 8 line correctly in this present shape seems a strong option.
Why? well black has no other direct or immediate threat other than the 9 line. Black's 10 line, and 12 line stones are isolated, and black's 11 line stones are soft blocked at both ends. All these stones can't create immediate offensives, and a cap would not cap into creating a 3, so playing to make immediate use of these stones poses no immediate threat. That leaves stones on the 9 line for black to use as immediate threats, and with white having the threat to cap on ether end of white's solid4, this setup could provide the anvil to which white's play on the 8 line could swing the hammer of destruction. If black chooses to break white's solid4 threat by caping on it, he loses initiative, giving white the opportunity to an open an 8 line offensive, so he probably wont pursue a cap, leaving the solid4 intact to whites delight. What black probably will pursue is forcing his 9 line threat on through seeking to avoid the traps poised to spring from the 10 line solid4 threats in some manner. Again it gets dicey but seems more promising, insuring greater difficulty for black.
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Re: The K9 - L11 Opening. a brief look
Posted:
Jul 27, 2009, 4:46 AM
I like Richard's idea of white playing to O11 before the opponent can in this case. I also agree with Zoey's original point that this is probably an opening sequence to avoid as white.
Going with Richard's two moves, here's one possibility:
This attempts to disrupt black's 9-line threat by presenting black with various keystone problems while also generating a strong potential and capture threat along the 8-line. I'm not completely sure if this works out for white but it's worth a try. This might end up like this:
What does black really have here now anyway? This makes it seem like black's move to J12 was really just a bit of a gambit to see if white would respond with a mistake. Black's logical offensive next move, capture threat at J11, is now a threat runs out of steam and black will eventually have to go back on defense. Meanwhile, white has created enough angles that as long as cap trouble is avoided, there should be enough initiative to win from here.
P.S. I'm not sure why two of my boards won't draw -- these are less important anyway, play it out with the moves listed if you are curious.
