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Topic: A puzzle
Replies: 9   Views: 3,104   Pages: 1   Last Post: May 21, 2019, 4:54 AM by: watsu

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karlw

Posts: 915
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 31
A puzzle
Posted: May 16, 2019, 7:51 PM

This puzzle is for everyone except watsu, whom I've already discussed it with.


K10,K9,N10,M7,M10,L10,M11,J8,L8,K7,H9,L6,M12,H7,G6,O10,M13,M14,N8,K5,M10,M9,K11,M9


White can win here, but it's not easy. Can you find the winning line?

EDIT: Please note the captures!

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.


pente_fan

Posts: 24
Registered: Nov 1, 2006
Re: A puzzle
Posted: May 19, 2019, 11:15 AM

L12 ?

karlw

Posts: 915
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 31
Re: A puzzle
Posted: May 20, 2019, 2:39 AM

L12 is correct! Keep going though!

L12 K12 then...?

(maybe obvious continuation) K11 N12 L12 J10 H11 J10 then...?

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
pente_fan

Posts: 24
Registered: Nov 1, 2006
Re: A puzzle
Posted: May 20, 2019, 12:03 PM


K10,K9,N10,M7,M10,L10,M11,J8,L8,K7,H9,L6,M12,H7,G6,O10,M13,M14,N8,K5,M10,M9,K11,M9,L12,K12,K11,N12,L12,J10,H11,J10,J11,L11,J13,L11,K9


Then J11,L11,J13,L11,K9.
It seems Black can't do anything to avoid the 5th capture.
Funny situation.

watsu

Posts: 988
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: A puzzle
Posted: May 20, 2019, 7:07 PM

I may be dense here, but I'm not seeing an obvious Gon path or other way to win for P1 either on pente_fan's line or on the one Karl sent me awhile back. I don't doubt that P1 can prevail eventually, assuming no mistakes, but while I'd agree P1 has the upper hand after J13, I'm not seeing a path forward clearly.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
karlw

Posts: 915
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 31
Re: A puzzle
Posted: May 20, 2019, 11:19 PM

You are of course correct, watsu: this is anything but a proven win for P1 after K9 (which I do think is White's best move). It is made difficult by the fact that P2 currently has a tiny bit of initiative. However, I claim that Black has only sham threats (for example M5 then O5), while P1 has the very real threat of G9 and a 5th capture.

Therefore, I recommend playing it out, you and me, here on the forum. In the position following K9, what is Black's move?

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
watsu

Posts: 988
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: A puzzle
Posted: May 20, 2019, 11:49 PM

Alright, before you sent me M8 instead of K9, I think.
K9 might be best in terms of quickest win, IDK. How many moves do you predict is the longest that P2 can hold out after K9 and what if I can find a shorteer or as short a win path for P1 while not using K9 at this move?

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
karlw

Posts: 915
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 31
Re: A puzzle
Posted: May 21, 2019, 2:24 AM

Okay, my claim is that Black only has sham threats, while White has two game-winning threats, G9 and G11-H12 (where P2 somehow has no good cap threats), which Black cannot simultaneously block. I am fairly confident in the truth of that claim. I am less confident about this, but in my best efforts I was able to make P2 survive until the White's 29th move (so 10 moves after his 19th move K9), using the blockable threats of M5-O5 and M8-Q12. He then has to block one of White's threats, but the other one should prevail.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
watsu

Posts: 988
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: A puzzle
Posted: May 21, 2019, 3:37 AM

That's roughly about what I see too. I'll see if I can come up with a line which wins for P1 at move 29 without using 19. K9 against best P2 play. And I doubt I can survive beyond move 29 as P2, but will look at that too.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
watsu

Posts: 988
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: A puzzle
Posted: May 21, 2019, 4:54 AM

Okay, I think I may be able to win on move 29 using an alternative move to 19. K9 and also to hold out beyond move 29 against 19. K9 as P2. I play 19. M8 as P1 and 19. ... M5 as P2...

ETA: with some assistance from Karl, I prolonged the game as P2 to move 34 after 19. K9.

As P1, I tried a line using 19. M8, but it was using the block of an extension which Karl didn't make to build off of, so it failed. So, back at the drawing board, I think I can win at move 30 (provided this line holds up) with 19. M8 O8 20. G11 F11 21. H13


Message was edited by: watsu at May 21, 2019 8:05 AM

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
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