Who is winning? Boat/ninuki renju question
Posted:
Jul 16, 2022, 9:18 AM
This is somewhat a puzzle and somewhat a question which arose for me tonight while looking at an old ninuki renju game between dein and zemlyak on PBeM. The original game is at this archive dot org webpage archived link. I diverged from that game at move 15 to explore this line. In the position I'm showing here, I think black wins, though I'm not positive. Any thoughts on ways white that white could put up a better fight on this line appreciated. Most likely the wedge is just a loss for P1 in ninuki and perhaps boat, but I thought this was an interesting game.
edited to change the game link to an archive.org link, since a different link seems to appear on the site each time one scrolls through moves.
Message was edited by: watsu at Jul 16, 2022, 2:09 PM
Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
Re: Who is winning? Boat/ninuki renju question
Posted:
Jul 20, 2022, 7:35 PM
"P1s 8th move is suspicious, and each move after increasingly so." Well, bear in mind a couple of things here; 1. P1's choices for 8th, 9th and 10th represent the lion's share of the Pente games in the db on this line (18/31 for the 10th move alone). 2. Boat hadn't yet been introduced here, and I think dein hadn't played that many ninuki games at the time this game occurred (2006), so he might have had better choices of moves for either boat or ninuki (or both) but didn't find them. 3. Once move 10 was chosen, overlines don't win in ninuki likely dooms P1's chances going forward.
Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
Re: Who is winning? Boat/ninuki renju question
Posted:
Jul 20, 2022, 7:53 PM
I don't know ninuki very well at all, nor can I predict what vbarykin would do after 11. M8. But, in ninuki due to overlines not winning I would think 11. ... M9 unnecessary unless it's particularly beneficial for P2's offense.
Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
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Re: Who is winning? Boat/ninuki renju question
Posted:
Jul 20, 2022, 7:56 PM
In the past, Viktor went out of his way to come to this site to invite me to one game of boat. Where he showed me a p2 win in boat. Aside from the brf tourneys thats the only time I played with him. Perhaps I can reach out to him and have him come here to look with us.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
