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Topic: Feedback wanted on format of Section B of DSG Tournament 4
Replies: 4   Views: 26,467   Pages: 1   Last Post: Nov 30, 2002, 5:57 AM by: progambler

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progambler

Posts: 79
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Lenexa, KS
Age: 42
Feedback wanted on format of Section B of DSG Tournament 4
Posted: Nov 20, 2002, 7:06 PM

DSG Tournament #4 will be split into two sections. section A is open to all players. Section B is only open to players rated below 1600 at DSG (with a couple of exceptions). We believe this will increase the enjoyment for all players. Players can only play in one of the sections, regardless of rating.

What we would like is to get feedback from as many players as possible by November 22nd for the tourney format of Section B ONLY. Note that this does not apply to Section A. Please post your comments in the tourney forum here at DSG, regardless of your rating or whether you will be playing in the tourney.

For Section A, it has been decided that the same format as the one used in Tournament 3 will be used except that all players will be seeded and the time controls will change slightly. For Section B ONLY, the tourney formats and pros and cons of each are discussed below. The director is proposing the Swiss system, which he believes will increase the enjoyment for most players. The co-director is proposing the double elimination, which he believes will be easier for players to understand.

Proposal #1, Swiss system (similar to type used in many A thru D class chess tourneys):
  1. All players play matches in all rounds (4-6 rounds depending on number of players). A running total is kept of total tourney wins.

  2. Top 4 with most total wins after the regular 4-6 rounds advance to a single elimination playoff. Winner of the playoff is the champion.

  3. Random pairings first round. After first round, players are paired with someone with the same (or similar) number of total wins in the tourney. Repeat matches are avoided until playoff.

  4. Regular matches consist of 4 games, two of each color.

  5. playoff matches consist of set(s) of two games, one of each color. The match winner is the first to win both games of a set.

  6. Vacation time allowed. Before the tourney begins, any player upon request may request a bye in any ONE round except the final.

Pros:
  1. Maximum action for everyone. All players get to play all rounds, regardless of ability.

  2. Playing opponents more equal in ability. After the first round, players always play someone with the same or a similar number of total tourney wins. This results in players playing someone of fairly equal ability by round 3.

  3. Potentially shorter matches. Before the playoff rounds, the matches are 4 games, regardless of outcome.

  4. Vacation time. If requested in advance, players can opt to take a round off (except the final) without having to forfeit a match.

Cons:
  1. Slightly more difficult to understand. Not quite as easy to determine whom your opponent will be in the next round. Director will keep all standings posted and determine match-ups.

  2. On-going excitement of the elimination format is not present until the playoff rounds.


Proposal #2, Double elimination (similar to one used in DSG Tournaments 1 & 2):
  1. Rounds continue until all players except one have lost two matches. One player left is the champion.

  2. Standard double elimination format with two brackets called bracket #1 (winner's bracket) and bracket #2 (loser's bracket).

  3. In the first round, all players start out in bracket #1 and are paired randomly. After the first round, players who win in bracket #1 are paired with each other accordingly. Players who lose in bracket #1 are dropped to bracket #2 and paired accordingly alongside the winners in bracket #2. Players who lose in bracket #2 are eliminated. Repeat matches are avoided as long as possible.

  4. Players only play within their own bracket until there is only one player left in bracket #1 at which time the brackets are combined.

  5. Matches consist of set(s) of two games, one of each color. Match winner is the first to win both games of a set.

Pros:
  1. Somewhat easier to understand. No running totals are needed.

  2. Total wins are not used to determine match-ups. Winners stay in their bracket. Losers drop a bracket or are eliminated.

Cons:
  1. Less action for most players. If a player is eliminated after 2 or 3 rounds, there is a long wait until the next tourney.

  2. There is no allowance for vacation. If you can't play a round, you forfeit.

  3. Potentially longer matches. Matches can go for 6 or more games if the sets continue to be tied.

  4. A good player can be eliminated after 2 or 3 rounds because they happen to be randomly paired against strong opponents.



andre

Posts: 30
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Sao Paulo - Brazil
Age: 38
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Re: Feedback wanted on format of Section B of DSG Tournament 4
Posted: Nov 20, 2002, 7:44 PM

Swiss is the best for a tournament like that (section B). It is more fun. A lot of games against different people.

Top 4 players in section be should be invited to play section A.

André


andre

Posts: 30
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Sao Paulo - Brazil
Age: 38
Home page
Re: Feedback wanted on format of Section B of DSG Tournament 4
Posted: Nov 20, 2002, 7:46 PM

I meant Section B (not be) in my last message.

mike321

Posts: 55
Registered: Jan 21, 2002
From: ohio
Age: 65
Re: Feedback wanted on format of Section B of DSG Tournament 4
Posted: Nov 29, 2002, 10:42 PM

i like the swiss idea!!if i get my rating down can i play in section B?? LOL


progambler

Posts: 79
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Lenexa, KS
Age: 42
Re: Feedback wanted on format of Section B of DSG Tournament 4
Posted: Nov 30, 2002, 5:57 AM

Mike -

I'm glad that you brought that up. That's why we made the statement in the comparions 'with a couple of exceptions'. The MAIN exception is that we will not allow players who have EVER been rated higher than 1750 to play in Section B. There are some other 'checks' that we will also do. Our 2 main objectives with this tournament are to make it fun for everyone and to maintain the integrity of the ratings for sectioning and seeding purposes.

All the comments have been in favor of the Swiss System for Section B, so that is what we will be going with. There are a couple of reasons why we decided to not do the Swiss system for BOTH sections: 1. It is a fairly radical departure from what we have done in the past, so we opted to do it with just one section. 2. The nature of the game with the large inherent advantage for player 1 makes for the possibility of a large # of players bunched up for the lead in Section A.

We will continue to adjust the format of the tourneys as we continue to get feedback and get more and more players in the future. Also, Dweebo is hoping to have the tournaments completely automated at sometime in the future, which will make for much less effort from him and the directors to get each tournament kicked off.


Gary

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