Posts:
1,032
Registered:
Dec 16, 2001
From:
Powell, OH
Age:
37 Home page
Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 12:20 AM
Hi everyone,
It has been awhile since I've been on the site and things are still going along ok without me, but things are not great.
Pente.org is a good site and it has the potential to be a REALLY GREAT site. However I no longer have the desire to make that happen personally. I am not much interested in making new features anymore and have no time for all of the (minor) issues that crop up.
I have known this for a few months but am not sure what to do now. I don't want to shut the site down (OF COURSE!), but I also don't want to just hand over the keys to someone else. This site was a major part of my life for almost 10 years and I've spent too much time/money on it to just give it away.
In my ideal world there would be another pente enthusiast who also happened to be a java web developer with linux experience who wanted to step in, learn the code and take over development/maintenance. I would still own the site domain and pay the server costs like I do now but someone else would be running the place.
I have yet to meet that person so I don't have much hope for that.
I do not want to sell the site at a site auction for many reasons, so I don't think I'll be doing that.
Perhaps there is some other option that would work, but I haven't figured it out yet.
Does anyone else have any ideas? Are you a java guru looking for a fun project?
Let me know either on this thread or message me privately with your thoughts.
Posts:
2,220
Registered:
Mar 4, 2007
From:
San Francisco
Age:
45 Home page
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 12:51 AM
so are we currently losing all support on present and future bug issues of both big and small proportions? like a ship with no captain at the helm, and we are praying for a new one to jump on before she sinks? you will keep the ship from fully sinking from major bug issues should they arise?
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Posts:
2,220
Registered:
Mar 4, 2007
From:
San Francisco
Age:
45 Home page
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 1:06 AM
well, if you don't find a free volunteer. here is a option. you can hire a java developer in india for a reasonable price i think. we would need to have a mandatory monthly donation from members. perhaps just mandatory from players wanting certain features. such as data base and forum access for example. i realize this is non profit, but even nonprofit employees get paid to maintain the place as far as i know.
heres a link to hire a java programmer from india;
or perhaps you know someone that is willing to be hired and paid randomly to fix certain bugs. a certain price per bug, as opposed to a salary. at that point when we have a issue he/she can give us a price, and we can start a fund raiser in the forum to tackle the bug that needs fixing. fund raisers have been successful here in the past, so as long as it is with in reason i think it is possibly do-able
.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Posts:
2,220
Registered:
Mar 4, 2007
From:
San Francisco
Age:
45 Home page
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 1:26 AM
this may sound odd. but is there any way to apply for a government grant to pay for support of a non profit web site? perhaps not for a gaming website, but i thought the idea interesting.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Posts:
542
Registered:
May 9, 2002
From:
Northeast USA
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 2:11 AM
Hey Dweebo,
Sorry to hear that you are losing interest, but I guess it had to happen eventually -- having sole responsibility over a site like this must be a burden and a significant time eater. As we move into new phases of life, raising families, etc, time becomes harder to come by so this is perfectly understandable. Hopefully we can work out a decent exit strategy.
I'm glad to see zoey brainstorming some ideas, but I have a feeling that those suggestions just aren't going to work in this situation.
I think the good news is that you have been able to get the site to a very stable point of its development. The fact that it can continue to run on its own for months without you checking in is quite excellent.
You never know if a few years from now you might have some free time and just might feel like diving back in with some new development -- so you probably don't want to just give up control of the site completely.
I hope that you might be willing to continue some "bare bones" involvement, such as continuing to make sure that the site is appropriately hosted and running on decent hardware. Perhaps once per month you could make a routine of checking for donations and rebooting the servers, for example. Otherwise, someone else will have to be able to at least boot / reboot the site if it totally crashes and/or have a way of communicating directly with the hosting service provider, etc.
I have a feeling that a lot of the "bugs" that might crop up could be periodically solved with a reboot of all systems related to this site. In this way, the site could at least continue on pretty nicely for a good while in its current state.
Before you go, it might also be useful to find a way to allow admins to do just a few additional things that could make management of the site easier -- I can't think of any specifics now of course but I vaguely recall that these ideas exist and have been talked about. For example, if I remember correctly, there is some part of Tournament creation that you have to do manually from your end...
Anyways, whatever you decide, I want to extend a huge THANK YOU for everything that you have done here over the years! You created a wonderful site that truely "rocks", and a place where a great community of people have found hours of enjoyment for many years.
Posts:
23
Registered:
Aug 31, 2005
From:
Iowa City, IA
Age:
52
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 2:39 AM
Peter, I can't really help with suggestions, but I want to add my thanks and sincere appreciation for your amazing talent in creating this brilliant site which has given us so much enjoyment. Interests evolve over the years - that's understandable. Best wishes in finding a worthy and willing Java wizard as your successor. -aleph_1
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 3:52 AM
Peter, I'd just like to add my thanks for all your efforts over the years to make a site which has truly made an evolutionary difference to the game of Pente. That's a great accomplishment and all of us who love this game appreciate what you've been able to do here. Tom
Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 4:10 AM
I wish you the best Peter. You've done a great job with this site. I hope you find the right person to take it over.
Since the code works fine the way it is, perhaps a developer isn't needed; as up2ng touched on, maybe you could empower a couple of admins to reboot the site periodically, start tournaments, fix minor issues, etc.
Posts:
29
Registered:
Aug 13, 2009
From:
Texas
Age:
53
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 9:12 PM
I'm fairly new to the site but have appreciated your work.
Unfortunately, I'm an old software developer so my Java skills are quite lacking. However, a few of the guys I work with on the site are java developers (and ruby on rails if that might be applicable).
We might be able to do a group effort here to do a bit of work on the site.
Posts:
1,032
Registered:
Dec 16, 2001
From:
Powell, OH
Age:
37 Home page
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 11:44 PM
how can he work for less than $8 an hour, that is crazy.
as up2ng said probably the least complicated way forward is to just give admins more access to server/database to fix stuff. i've made a note to myself to set that up as a temporary solution.
that's fine and will keep the site running, but really there are so many things that could be added still to the site to make it better that it would be cool if someone wanted to do it. the site might actually make some money too if the AI is moved out into a separate screen running outside the game room where we can stick in full page adds between games (something i wanted to do awhile ago).
i suppose i just need to decide to do one of three things. 1. sell the site to someone and move it completely out of my control 2. make the code open source and let anyone who wants too start a new pente.org and make whatever changes they want 3. recruit a new "leader" of the site who is in charge of all decisions. i still own the intellectual property (the code) and control the server but won't be involved at all. whoever the new leader is signs a non-disclosure agreement to get access to the code and any coders they hire/find do the same. it is a .org but that doesn't mean it has to be a not-for-profit venture. whoever the leader could setup more ads or pay-for-features that they want in an effort to make a profit. as long as the current functionality stays free i would be happy.
i like #3 the best. if anyone is interested in taking on that role please let me know and we'll talk details.
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Nov 8, 2010, 6:09 AM
Hi Pete,
you know me because we spoke a couple of years back about a board game we created, and you sent us some code to get started. this was done with the view to perhaps hosting our game on your system.
I would be interested in looking at some options there. I haven't had much time to think this through as I just came accross this post now, but there may be something we can work out to our mutual benefit.
I think up2ng's suggestion is best at least as an interim approach, and this will buy some time to work something out between us. If we did take over the site we would still look to the current admins to continue in their roles as they are doing an excellent job from what I can see.
On the face of it, and without having thought this through properly yet, I expect my approach would be to continue the site in pretty much the same way it is currently but with a (hopefully) more active approach to adding new features. This is not because I am any less busy than you are, but because I have some friends who are Java fanatics and owe me more than a couple of favours.
My goal would be add features proposed by the experienced users, and also promote the site to increase the number of active players. (Just a side note: I personally don't put stock in the whole issue of the game being nearly solved etc and that therefore people aren't sticking around for too long to become reds and some such argument. Since 95% people will never become red anyway, this is a non-argument. I think that this site would have more people if it was promoted more heavily and some new features were added.) I would look at perhaps adding some other games to the site to attract a broader general audience and generate some cross-over interest.
I would not want to do anything to alienate the loyalty of the current user base, and would take a very consultative approach to building the site going forward. I know you would want to ensure that the site was placed in to good hands, so this will be as much about you judging my suitability for this task.
Anyway, I will be in contact soon to discuss the possibilities with you.
Posts:
2
Registered:
Mar 20, 2010
From:
Harrisburg, PA
Age:
52
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Dec 9, 2010, 3:17 AM
Any progress on this? I've dealt with ownership transfers on mostly internet properties...let me know the status and I'll contribute my experience to helping facilitate if it's appropropriate...I can see your challenge in this as it's a relatively common one....let me know. P.
Re: Future of pente.org
Posted:
Dec 9, 2010, 2:28 PM
Hi pmplummer
yes please. Any help is welcome.
Dweebo and I have exchanged preliminary emails, but I guess both of us are very busy right now it seems, so progress is slow. At the moment he is waiting on my response. I am formulating something now but its taking me some time to put it together, so I probably could use your thoughts on this pmplummer.
Anyway, I am sure dweebo will update everyone as we go forward, if we do work something out.
