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From:
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Re: Another little puzzle
Posted:
Apr 22, 2023, 6:04 PM
Good question! I realized in thinking about your question that I tend to think of attacks as "efficient" if, once they're begun, every subsequent move is basically forced. I.e., as you put it, most controlled by limited paths. In this case, I think there's a move for black that sets up three such attacks. But there might be better moves still!
Re: Another little puzzle
Posted:
Apr 22, 2023, 7:08 PM
Pente (and variant) puzzles are a bit tricky to define as anything beyond - "find the single least move solution for this position, assuming optimal prolonging play by the other player" without more context.
Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
Re: Another little puzzle
Posted:
Apr 25, 2023, 7:18 AM
I'm playing with the puzzle. I wanted to provide code if someone wants to make the starting board, just add closed brackets on either side of the text below [....]:
Re: Another little puzzle
Posted:
Apr 25, 2023, 7:38 AM
Taking a beginner try at the puzzle.
If Black went for their next move at H9: it would force white to block at J10. Black could then capture, and white needs to re-block.
At first I thought Black could then make an open-3 - on K7. Because this new open-3 would simultaneously block/threaten white's vertical pair on K and make a stretch-2 between K7 and M9. And then if Black were to later play at L8, it would make an open-3 and threaten the keystone.
But on further examination, if white then played G12, black blocks at F12. White could then make an open-4. So either black's move at K7 was a mistake, or an earlier move. Need to consider it further.
Message was edited by: daniel5 at Apr 25, 2023, 7:55 AM
Re: Another little puzzle
Posted:
Apr 25, 2023, 8:38 PM
I tried two paths with black's next move at J10, forcing white to block at H9.
Seems like if black goes this route, to maintain control may require a move at J9 or L11. But as I try these two paths (most likely with errors) I seem to end up in games where white is in an advantage.
For the first game (J9 route), it seems white would make a stretch-4 with K6 and force black to block at K7. This allows white to capture and continue (not entirely sure in what direction) , and it seems white has an advantage (but I am not certain on this point).
For the second game (L11 route), it seems white could challenge black's keystone pair as opposed to blocking one end of the open-3. Also doesn't seem great for black.
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Re: Another little puzzle
Posted:
Apr 25, 2023, 11:37 PM
Optimal paths does not include extending the diag on first move. But there are other moves which black can win with. One that ned mentioned to me in private chat, and a couple others I have come up with. But your examples are good to show people why the extensions ain't it. I think me and ned don't want to ruin the puzzle by saying answers. Even tho you asked for opinions of experienced players. I'll give hint, that there are at least 2 on the L line that work, and at least one on the K line that works.
Message was edited by: zoeyk at Apr 25, 2023, 11:37 PM
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: Another little puzzle
Posted:
May 5, 2023, 4:18 AM
Thanks for your input and hints zoeyk. I appreciate it!
This puzzle may be above my abilities currently, but I'm taking another attempt at playing with the puzzle. So far my approach to is to try to eliminate paths that don't work.
I figured I would try to see if I can get anywhere with options on lines K and L. K13 first seemed an option, it would make a 'divided-3' on row 13. But it doesn't seem to work if white plays this way:
K15 would make a triangle formation. K7 would make a pair and a stretch two. I'll come back to these.
For line L, seems L14 is a good option. L11 and L13 make pairs that can be challenged by white, and these moves seem to allow white the advantage. L9 seems really bad for black. Both L8 and L14 make a 'divided-3' on column L and a pair. However, the pair at L8/M9 can be challenged with white going to K7, which black needs to respond to.
L8 :
So L14 seems like a better option. Seems white would challenge the pair at L14/M13. If white challenges the pair, black could go L13. Now if white captures, black could make an open-4, so white would need to block at L11 instead.
Still working on it.K7, K15, and L14 are paths I want to look at further.
Posts:
2,237
Registered:
Mar 4, 2007
From:
San Francisco
Age:
45 Home page
Re: Another little puzzle
Posted:
May 5, 2023, 6:21 AM
One of the 8th moves was a correct one. The other two are not. K line move incorrect on your guess. One of your L line guesses were correct. But 9th i haven't commented on, yet.
Z
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
