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Topic: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Replies: 25   Views: 1,661   Pages: 2   Last Post: May 16, 2022, 2:37 PM by: watsu

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watsu

Posts: 1,170
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
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Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: Mar 9, 2022, 2:03 PM

My answer? Karlw. Yet, there are 9 inactive TB players (including me) on this site who have higher ratings than Karl. None of us higher rated players have played a rated TB set in at least a year. Perhaps in part because the current Winter's Coming tournament has been running for going on 15 months now (more than half of that in rounds 9 and 10). But, I would suggest the possibility that TB Pente ratings being broken at the highest level of the game is a contributing factor. That's why I play single rated games of swap2 Pente (and variants) when I play TB games. I've played close to 200 rated swap2 games (including real time games and variants) in the past 5 months. No matter what has been done here to adjust the way ratings are calculated, at the highest level of the game, they're broken. They were changed from single game rating to rating by sets - no change for draws. Then they were changed to penalize the higher rated player for a draw. I suggest that top players who want to test their strength at Pente should look to real time swap2 tournament games as the true test of playing strength and attempt to take pente_gon's first place in the Mind Sports Olympics from him in May.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney


t0afer

Posts: 38
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 30
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: Mar 11, 2022, 3:18 AM

I really think swap2 Boat pente is probably the way forward for tournament pente.

The BGA implentation has been fantastic, and while the size and skill of the community there isn't as good as here, that balance has already made it tied for pente.org as my preferred place to play.

Trying to get others from different BGA games involved as well.

nate42

Posts: 1
Registered: Sep 21, 2021
From: Texas
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 5, 2022, 7:01 PM

Is there a post discussing in what ways ratings are broken? I'd like to learn more.

watsu

Posts: 1,170
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 5, 2022, 7:36 PM

There was a long discussion thread a few years ago which resulted in the higher rated player losing points to the lower rated player in a split set - discussion of this began near the bottom of the first page:
https://www.pente.org/gameServer/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=1&threadID=231821&start=0&tstart=0
For about 10 years prior to that change, split sets resulted in no rating change for either player, which resulted in inflated ratings:
https://development.pente.org/gameServer/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=5&threadID=3981&start=0&tstart=76
Prior to that time, ratings were calculated based on single games, with a general expectation that players would play two rated games, one game as white and one as black. At the time that set based ratings were implemented here, hardly any games played here were turn based; live games were the norm here at that time. Rating inflation did occur in live games as well, but not to the degree it happened with turn based games.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
mumix

Posts: 9
Registered: Jul 11, 2020
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 7, 2022, 2:33 PM

It would seem the number of active players would contribute to how high ratings could get. Because if we had only two players, and one person always won the set, he would max out at what, 2100? Getting 0 points from a 1100 player? Guessing on the numbers but you get the idea.

madmike

Posts: 114
Registered: May 27, 2014
From: Houston
Age: 66
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 7, 2022, 3:25 PM

Why even worry about "ratings inflation"? If we are all on the same scale, it is harder to win against higher rated player and easier to beat a lower rated player.

watsu

Posts: 1,170
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 7, 2022, 3:31 PM

Yes, the number of players (and games played) do contribute to the ratings ceiling. However, real time pente used to have substantial player base here with annual tournaments with large player pools. At that time, Master level was ~ 1900 and 1900 players were often reluctant to play sets against strong 17-1800 players due to the very real potential for splitting a set and losing rating points. Both virag and sjustice were below 2100 and that appeared to be the ceiling at that time - not due to a small player pool, but rather due to the first player advantage.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
watsu

Posts: 1,170
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 7, 2022, 3:44 PM

@madmike - well, it was apparently enough of a concern in TB Pente that all ratings by sets were changed so that the higher rated player is penalized for drawing with the lower rated player. The point is, none of these ideas for how ratings should be calculated actually address the inherent advantage the first player has.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
mumix

Posts: 9
Registered: Jul 11, 2020
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 7, 2022, 4:09 PM

It seems some higher rated players will not even play so that they can protect their rating, sad day. perhaps if we went back to the old method of no rating change on a drawn set then higher rated players would be more willing to play lower rated players. One exception is nedhall, I think he is actively playing every player here at the same time lol

nedhall17

Posts: 7
Registered: Sep 25, 2021
From: Boston
Age: 55
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 7, 2022, 4:25 PM

Yeah I clearly have a problem!! Though in all seriousness mumix raises a good point. It's probably worth all of us remembering that the ratings aren't there to admire, but just to give us all some useful information when we're deciding who we want to play. (IMHO, anyway.)

watsu

Posts: 1,170
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 7, 2022, 6:22 PM

I'm glad to see newer players weighing in; I feel like I've already said more than my fair share on the topics of set based ratings, ratings protection and ratings inflation in other threads. My main point here was the 2 rounds of a tournament which went on for over a year due to draws and no tournaments for variants occurred during that time. Does swap2 prevent rating protection? No. But tournaments sure are over a lot more quickly.


Message was edited by: watsu at May 7, 2022, 6:37 PM


I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
mumix

Posts: 9
Registered: Jul 11, 2020
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 7, 2022, 6:41 PM

And if gamo didn't give up after 9 tied sets with karl the tourney might still be going for a few more years lol.

To the original topic, my vote on best active player is now nedhall

watsu

Posts: 1,170
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 7, 2022, 6:50 PM

My vote goes to zoeyk, but if quantity of games played is a factor, I think you have a point with Ned.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
nedhall17

Posts: 7
Registered: Sep 25, 2021
From: Boston
Age: 55
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 8, 2022, 2:40 AM

Best *hyperactive* player, *maybe*. (On a good day.) But I dream of the day when I have watsu's or zoeyk's deep understanding of strategy....

t0afer

Posts: 38
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 30
Re: Who is the best active TB Pente player in the world?
Posted: May 8, 2022, 2:49 AM

Well its not me, but I'm trying lol. I'm hoping swap2 starts drawing in some more people from Gomoku and start forcing more interest and even growth in the game's meta.

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