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Topic: Question about how points are determined when winning and losing
Replies: 7   Views: 4,568   Pages: 1   Last Post: Mar 27, 2020, 1:29 AM by: invictus

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Replies: 7   Views: 4,568   Pages: 1  
icefog99

Posts: 3
Registered: Oct 30, 2018
Age: 57
Question about how points are determined when winning and losing
Posted: Jul 9, 2019, 7:20 PM

I am curious about how the point structure works when winning or losing sets. Sometimes I tie a set and lose points, I have lost points when winning both games of a set....just seems confusing for me. I looked in the FAQ and didn't see information on the points structure.



karlw

Posts: 923
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 31
Re: Question about how points are determined when winning and losing
Posted: Jul 9, 2019, 9:07 PM

https://pente.org/help/helpWindow.jsp?file=faqGeneral

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
up2ng

Posts: 542
Registered: May 9, 2002
From: Northeast USA
Age: 38
Re: Question about how points are determined when winning and losing
Posted: Mar 22, 2020, 10:26 PM

So I've been absent for a long time but just became aware of this myself. The reply showing the link to the General FAQ is insufficient -- the original question asked specifically about tying a set and still losing points.

For many years the policy here was that a split set would not cause any rating change for either player. For the games that are played here, that is the correct way of doing it. You'd have to go back a very long time but I wrote extensively about this issue in the forums, probably as far back as 2003 or so, with very detailed explanations as to why ratings should not change for split sets.

I'm not sure when this policy was reversed but quite frankly, that's a horrific decision. The result will be, as had been in the distant past, that no one will play rated games with a few rare exceptions.

This policy should be changed back to how it was as soon as possible. To make a long story short, the basic reason is because these games by their very nature have a massive advantage for the first player, combined with the fact that there is virtually no such thing as a drawn game.

Since rediscovering this site again after many years away I have periodically checked in for the past several weeks. Most of the time the main live game rooms are empty. I have to wonder if this is a part of the reason why.

watsu

Posts: 1,009
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Question about how points are determined when winning and losing
Posted: Mar 22, 2020, 11:15 PM

@ Up2ng, the change away from drawn sets not affecting ratings was made about 10 months ago, roughly. I raised objections, but I believe I was the only player who objected to the change in the forum.
Long discussion thread - starts around the end of page 1.
https://www.pente.org/gameServer/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=1&threadID=231821&start=0
Additional discussion once the reversion decision was made:
https://www.pente.org/gameServer/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=1&threadID=232090

The site had definitely shifted nearly exclusively to turn based games well before the change back was implemented, so I don't think there's a great correlation between lack of live play and the change in ratings calcs.


Message was edited by: watsu at Mar 22, 2020, 11:22 PM

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
invictus

Posts: 214
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Question about how points are determined when winning and losing
Posted: Mar 24, 2020, 1:37 AM

i too have concerns about this scoring system.
as a relatively low ranked player it's difficult enough to get a rated game against a higher ranked player and i feel this system generates a sense of classism where people of like scores only play each other due to the huge risk of loss for the higher ranked player.
and honestly, i feel uncomfortable when taking points from a red player in a draw set.

live or die on the table
rainwolf

Posts: 684
Registered: Apr 12, 2008
From: Singapore
Age: 40
Home page
Re: Question about how points are determined when winning and losing
Posted: Mar 26, 2020, 5:30 AM

I based that decision on the fact that players with a much deeper understanding of the game thought it a good idea. I am not going to reverse it at this time because going back and forth like that I deem more harmful. Personally I would have liked the blow from a drawn game softened a little more.

People are still playing rated, and hardly anyone plays live anymore, but I'm pretty sure the ratings algorithm change has got nothing to do with that. I need to provide a clean and easy way to get a live game, much like lichess does, and there are plenty of hurdles to get to that point.

Most people who played live from way back don't play anymore, and potential newcomers who play live don't know any other rating algorithm than the current one.

\_(ツ)_/
invictus

Posts: 214
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Question about how points are determined when winning and losing
Posted: Mar 27, 2020, 1:26 AM

i have no problem with a weighted algorithm.
it may indeed be the fairest way to go.
but i still feel that a draw set should have no penalty or reward for either player.
so mebbe that lil segment could be changed?

live or die on the table
invictus

Posts: 214
Registered: Jan 23, 2009
From: north carolina
Age: 48
Re: Question about how points are determined when winning and losing
Posted: Mar 27, 2020, 1:29 AM

concerning the lack of interest in live games, i have started a friday night party table (9pm est) that i hope rebuilds interest in live games.
so i hope to see you all there!

live or die on the table
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