Posts:
1,032
Registered:
Dec 16, 2001
From:
Powell, OH
Age:
37 Home page
BrainKing Games
Posted:
Jan 27, 2005, 10:34 PM
The DSG Games History now includes a selection of Pente games played at BrainKing. Much thanks to Mark Mammel for writing a tool to scan BK games and giving them to me (around 1500 added).
I think he searched for games played by the top 20 or so players and just got those (he did it back in September, I was slow at getting them up at DSG).
Posts:
186
Registered:
Aug 15, 2003
From:
Krakow / Poland Home page
Re: BrainKing Games
Posted:
Apr 17, 2010, 11:17 PM
it's not about my including or not my games. i just think that leads to this game being solved, which i dont want to see i have comparison to how this game looks like almost 7 years ago when i started playing and now. the progress is really big, not only because of new talented players (in fact i think, that now less players are playing online), but because most of openings are to be found in db and any new positions are there after few weeks. now its not hard to reach high rating, its mostly about learning how to use effectively db than the game itself. its sad to me, cause i used to spent lot of time first on learning the game by getting beat by better players and then on analysing new (better or worse) positions and now most of them anyone can see in db and use without even thinking about the reasons that stand after particular moves. online pente used to be a game of surprising opponent with new position, now its all about waiting for mistake done by player1. one can say that there is no big difference between it, but i see it in games played over board in real.
Posts:
2,233
Registered:
Mar 4, 2007
From:
San Francisco
Age:
45 Home page
Re: BrainKing Games
Posted:
Apr 18, 2010, 12:03 AM
s3v3n; online pente used to be a game of surprising opponent with new position, now its all about waiting for mistake done by player1. one can say that there is no big difference between it
zoey; i see your concern. although you have a slight point, i feel its not as big a point as you think. there is room for new positions before an update, and there will still be room for new positions after an update. in live rated games, players can not see the data base. in turn based if your opponent relies on copying the data base to think, you use this as an advantage because the data base can lead them to doom, if you are good enough to read the data base's flaws. good players will not copy the data base even with updates. they will try to show that they can find their own personalized P1 path, this gives P2 a chance for a new attack. there are so many novelties not tried yet. even with BK updates it does not come even close to solving the game. i bet there is still one million novelties to be discovered. but i understand that with the updates the P2 lines lose a level of strength. but this only pushes good players to abandon recycling old lines and instead start searching for a new novelty. recycling a great P2 line does not help the game to progress, just only helps your rating. and it dulls your studies if you have no need to search for a new way as P2.
just in my opinion of course.
zoeyk
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
I agree whole-heartedly with seven's position on this matter! I am becoming less and less interested in playing pente, simply because i see peeps are depending more on the DB than on thinking.
Admittedly, i have used the DB myself for study, but now i see the cancer that it is for making peeps diverge from real thought and inventiveness.
As useful as the db is, I hate it for the laziness it creates.
Posts:
2,233
Registered:
Mar 4, 2007
From:
San Francisco
Age:
45 Home page
Re: BrainKing Games
Posted:
Apr 18, 2010, 10:35 AM
this is the reason i like "live rated" soo much more than turn based. very few players can memorize the whole data base and remember all moves when the database is locked for 20+ minutes while playing.
if you feel discouraged, try not playing turn based for a bit, just play live. its more fun i think. and also,.. see if players will let you just play as white, and do risky odd ball moves to mix it up. just a thought.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Posts:
542
Registered:
May 9, 2002
From:
Northeast USA
Re: BrainKing Games
Posted:
Apr 18, 2010, 6:59 PM
This is getting a little off topic, but I don't think playing oddball or risky moves as P1 in Pente is the way to go. But, if you are looking for something like this, try one of the other variations, like G-Pente or D-Pente. Personally, I think D-Pente completely solves (for now) this business of people playing straight off of the database and forces players to actually understand the concepts of the game and play a much greater variety of lines. I wish it was more popular since it is probably a better game.
As for the database, regardless of opinions about whether or not it is good for the game (and there are valid points on both sides for that), if we are going to have a database it might as well be as complete as possible and as easy to search as possible (new filters based on ratings, time trouble, etc). I found it interesting that a tool once existed that allowed dweebo to scan brainking games and import them into the database. Now, maybe this tool no longer works -- maybe the folks at Brainking have locked things down, who knows. Hopefully Mark or Peter will chime in and fill us in on this topic.
I find it interesting that the db is still wide open in terms of innovation and creativity not only for G and D pente, but also for variants like Keryo, Boat and Poof Pente. None of these games add significantly in terms of new rules to memorize (unlike say ninuki renju), yet people here just don't play any of them much. Is it because the DB is so much better for studying Pente than for these other games, or are they really that much less interesting to play? Most likely the former, I think. So, if the database here is indeed already so good a tool that people vastly prefer Pente over all other variants combined, I don't see adding in some more TB games from Brainking as anything more than a drop in the bucket. Yes, it will bring the DB closer to a solution of the game, but as Zoey mentioned, how many players have the full DB loaded in their memories (or hard drives?) for live rated games? I personally think it's a shame that the other games get so little play, and will do my part to add to their popularity as time permits.
Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
