Against rule for revisiting topics that have been beat to death........
Posted:
Jan 21, 2010, 1:10 AM
In reference to Revisiting topics that have been beat to death I'm at a TOTAL loss as to why up2ng would even consider including this one. How many times was the case for set-based ratings advocated to the minutae before the winds of change blew favorably for the implementation to take place and win (overall) acceptance? Reluctantly and with no malice but simply to illuminate the field I point out that it was up2ng who brought this 'dead horse' back from the grave time and again and with a LOT of detail (Man sometimes your analysis made my medical textbooks read like Calvin and Hobbes Dean!!! A testament to your analytical prowess to be sure, but WOW!!!!...I bet you could talk a bird out of flying if given enough time and ink lol).
To reinforce my position against the rule for staying on topic at all times I will point out also that the ressurrection of said dead horse normally took place in the context of other topics (point protecting was one of them, there were others....) and it was only through these other topics that its importance was fully grasped or perceived. Tangents are not only natural but VITAL and NECESSARY for ANY real growth to take place. How many discoveries do you suppose would not have been made if smart people relegated themselves to the preconceived course and didn't follow a tangent? Medical, agricultural, Industrial, I could go on but for the sake of relevence I'll end this with the fact that the last and most significant change to take place at .org in the last 5 years was the product of both revisiting old topics flogged to Hades and back and that took the topic of the forums off course.
PS-OF COURSE generally all with common sense strive to speak in context to an existing conversation if they are participating. The only time an author would blatently throw something from the far outfield into the mix would be in the case of deliberate sabotage of the thread (a seperate rule which I'll voice on soon....), inadvertent posting in the wrong forai, adolescence or mental illness(who hasn't done that after a night of pente boozin'? lol.....)......none of which warrant an extra rule being implemented.
Does anyone honestly feel that UNNECESSARY rules/laws/whatever are a good thing? Our history books have demonstrated the degratory nature of that axiom time and again. Not to inject a false sense of drama into anything mind you, but this IS community governance in action, correct?
FOR Do Not DELIBERATELY post in a disruptive Manner
Posted:
Jan 21, 2010, 1:47 AM
Ok I wanna cover a couple that I'm for and not against...
First the rule proposed forbidding deliberately posting in a disruptive manner. This is a good one not only for its own sake but for the sake of keeping the rules streamlined and fostering community. For instance with this rule in place, the rule "stay on topic at all times" becomes superfluous and thus can be scrapped allowing humans to be humans and follow normal tangents which happen daily in the forai but doesn't accomodate sabotage or abuse. This one's a peach.
Re: FOR always post with your main ID
Posted:
Jan 21, 2010, 1:53 AM
Without the diatribe re: alts I'll just voice agreement on this one. Only one trying to embellish and falsely bolster an argument (or someone absentminded that forgot to logout of their alt ID lol) would act to the contrary. Oh I forgot about complete @$$-you-know-whats that are just flat out trying to antagonize peeps like that baddsixx9y thing last year. That was creepy.
Suggestion re: Technique
Posted:
Jan 21, 2010, 2:19 AM
Ok last one unless anyone cares to discuss merits of any other rules.......m'fingers are about to fall off here.
When perceiving an argumentative point of view from another party a technique I've found INVALUABLE (but admittedly fall shoirt of consistently lol......work in progress here obviously) is to ASK a question rather than make a STATEMENT regarding the perception.
Example: Lets say I called richard a vomit-laden rat farmer with poor fashion taste. Richard would then get all offended that I accused him of anything but the most discerning and elegant expression in his wardrobe attire and might reply "I Smite thee Squirrl for thou hast indeed trespassed where Gods naught dare and for this sin I do DAMN YOU!!!!!!! Thou art naught but a treerat who knows naught of that which he speaketheth!!!"
Well turns out that when he wasn't looking an overflying vulture relieved itself on the back of his sportscoat as he was enjoying tea and crumpets in Downtown Philadelphia, rendering his back to appear like a Jackson Pollack interpretation of Bob Marley giving birth to a grand piano. TOTALLY clashes with Tweed, ya know?
So if instead of berating me he said "Whyest Squirrl doest thouest accuse me of said trespass?" I would then tell him that reggae and classical music are diametrically opposed musically, point to the back of his jacket and he would then understand what the REAL source of scandal was, and be RELIEVED to be able to correct the problem before he went about publicly destroying his reputation as a vomit-laden rat farmer a' la contemporary chic.
Re: Forum policies, community director
Posted:
Jan 23, 2010, 5:03 PM
Dweebo, Ya know what? As far as I'm concerned you could just dump the forum altoghether. There are now and always will be trolls on here who take a pathological pleasure from upsetting people: likely because feelings of powerlessness in their personal lives drive them to denigrate others in order to feel ok about themselves, whatever. I watched this forum deteriorate into such a morass of petty bickering that pretty much quit posting or even reading it. If I could, I'd take it off my dashboard, so the topics wouldn't catch my eye now and then. In fact, I've stopped playing here regularly as a result of some of the crap that goes on. Everybody has e mail, if we want to talk we can do it that way. So I vote to close the forum. Clearly it is abused and lends itself to abuse by the socially retarded.
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Re: Forum policies, community director
Posted:
Jan 24, 2010, 5:34 PM
Really great post, Blackkllab.
For any game to grow, endure, and take its place among the world's great games, children must be allowed to play it.
Some of the stuff that appears in the forums periodically may be considered unfit for children's eyes, and may lead some adults to forbid their children from visiting this great site to play this great game.
For that reason, I agree that the forum's very presence on the site does need to be questioned by those who primarily visit the site to play pente. (No Zoey. You play a lot of pente here. This post is definitely not about you.)
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Re: Forum policies, community director
Posted:
Jan 24, 2010, 8:07 PM
ahem, first, the general forum is the only one with fighting issues. the other forums here dont have this issue. so only the general would need to be shut down. secondly, although this extreme measure may be needed one day i dont think we've arrived to that last resort yet, have we?
there are a order of steps to take first i think. of which i think dweebo and up2ng had listed before. first we need to put in place a agreed set of rules/guidelines, and see how they do, and follow a system of disciplining for those unable to abide by them.
i also think if blackkllab wants the popular threads removed from his dash board on his account then go ahead if you want dweebo. there are still people who like the forum, for those that dont, just dont use it. as far as kids, as long as we get this place under control then there should be no issue there.
the forum is an amazing community tool when not abused, i agree about the comment of, "throwing the baby out with the bath water" as being not good to do here unless absolutely needed.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: Forum policies, community director
Posted:
Jan 26, 2010, 1:07 AM
I think closing the forums is just allowing a small number of people to ruin it for the rest of us.
The answer to all this surely is a concerted effort to name and shame those who seek only to disrupt and abuse others for their own gratification and to just curb a few of the excesses of the rest of us who may occasionally transgress. I don't think we should be discussing closing the forum down until we have exhausted all the options.
However, I would endorse blackllab's idea that your user profile could include an option to switch off the forum. This would not be child proof of course, but would satisfy part of blackllab's request.
To me the rules can be condensed to two. 1. No abuse, trolling, disruption, rudeness, insults, personal attacks, attacks on 3rd parties, hijacking threads, and general meanness. 2. If, in the opinion of 2 out of 3 admins, you have transgressed rule 1, your post will be removed and you will receive a warning in your message box. If you are a repeat offender your forum privileges will be removed permanently.
I know that people can create lots of alts to get around this, but to have your privileges removed against your name is to be shamed, and I think this would have an impact on people. We all need to remember that this whole site - not just the forum - is a privilege to us provided by the good graces of dweebo. An abuse of the forum is an abuse of the privilege he has provided, and doing this is something to be ashamed about. We as a community should be making that clear to all transgressors.
Lastly, we also need to have some encouragement for good behavior. Periodically we could have a prize awarded to the Best Behaved Frequent Forum Poster. The BBFFP award winner would receive a gold star or a smiley face next to their name (like a gold crown) to show they are an example to the rest of us. This could be voted on by the players once every 3 months. Anyway, just a thought.
Re: Forum policies, community director
Posted:
Jan 26, 2010, 2:59 AM
I am certain that shutting down a forum just because you don't like what peeps say, is close to an act of fascism. To me, peeps getting all weirded out over diatribe is laughable. Heck, I come into the forums just to see who is ranting the loudest, but I understand if some have thin skin.
Violent threats, profanity, and sexually explicit language should be the only things limited in the forums. To create a effort to control the free speech of peeps here will only dull the color of the forums over all.
Let A-holes be their hole selves, angels be heavenly , and by all means let us freaks be freaky!
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Re: Forum policies, community director
Posted:
Jan 26, 2010, 8:16 AM
Threats, profanity, and sexually explicit language are over the line.
Shy of that, trying make everyone be nice is a waste of time (and kind of scary to think someone thinks they can do it). Some of us have consumed many a bowl of popcorn reading the nonsensical tit-for-tat. I can stop reading it at any time if I wish. Are there people who can't stop reading on there own; so they need some big-brother or big-sister to clean this place up for them?
Besides, reading posts is like having a window into the soul and it helps to know that someone is a knee-jerk reactionary. For instance, if someone likes to think of themselves as a moderate, but their own posts betray their liberal slant; I can use that to help distract them in a game, by talking about how the "tea-baggers" stole "Ted Kennedy's" senate seat. LMBO!!!
When it comes to editing, deleting, etc., less is more.
Re: Forum policies, community director
Posted:
Jan 27, 2010, 2:51 AM
Well aside from some bitter label-making and extreme broadbrushing (which makes no sense) to the effect of shutting the forums down by a couple of disgruntleds who inadvertently talk about themselves more than they realize, there appears to be pretty much nothing in the way of intelligent support for rule implementation beyond what R3 and JS summarized. All that needs to be done IMO is to define what template (pg-13, southern baptist, etc....) the community wants to embrace and next stop "Enlightenment" it is. Bummer I was really kinda lookin' forward to some meritorious debate but it doesn't appear to be available. Ahhhh well c'est la vie babies. I'm headed out over the horizon in any case so good luck y'all.....Be Cool, Don't Drool.
Re: Forum policies, community director
Posted:
Jan 27, 2010, 3:39 PM
Richard, your position on this is relative to what you get out of the forums. For some people, it seems there is entertainment value in reading or generating extreme posting as if it were a spectator sport. For those with this predilection, introducing rules of behavior is anathema and naturally such people will play the anti-censorship card to preserve the status quo.
However, I think there are those here who actually would like the forum to be about conversation, information, sharing ideas and contributing positively to the community. This approach does not seek to utilize the forums as a form of entertainment or personal aggrandizement, but of communication, building of consensus, and testing of ideas. The problem is that this pursuit is frequently hijacked by those that seek only to create drama where none need exist.
It is because of this that some people are advocating that a set of guidelines be put in place. I know you will always argue for defense of free speech on this point, but at the end of the day why should the majority have their enjoyment spoiled by a minority because of their need for a daily drama fix?
I think the basis of all this is that people just want some respect. It seems that this is not forthcoming and so this leaves only three options. 1. Put up with it, 2. Introduce rules of conduct, or 3. leave the forums.
I think option 2 just makes sense. To argue against trying it just seems to me to be a vote for a minority who spoil it for others. This isn't just about being thin skinned, it's about a constant harassment and deliberate disruption. Why are you trying to protect and preserve this? Is it just in the name of your personal entertainment?
While it is not possible to legislate for actual respect, we can at least advocate conduct that resembles it.
