Posts:
205
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Dec 16, 2001
From:
Moscow,Russia
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Re: Are you a Pente-Nazi?
Posted:
Feb 3, 2011, 6:03 AM
I belive that you have friend in deep Texas village and that he is superviser, and may be he can play Go on Dan level but it not means that he able compete with Top Japanese, Chinese and Korean Masters in Go. I also don't belive that he able to play Pente on top level and make moves from last top level Tournament competition.
Message was edited by: nosovs at Feb 3, 2011 12:03 AM
Re: Are you a Pente-Nazi?
Posted:
Feb 3, 2011, 4:37 PM
Clear, reasoned, and polite. Thank you, Jack. MOST of the people here, and other sites, play for recreation, and for fun. The "nazis" I've encountered are displaying an elitest bent, and I'm not sure I would enjoy their company in person, over a board, sharing a pint or two...
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Mar 4, 2007
From:
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Re: Are you a Pente-?
Posted:
Feb 3, 2011, 9:52 PM
jack, settle down sir.
if you review me and nosovs comments you'll realize we don't show any concern in being beaten by new players. it happens. i get beaten by guests all the time. and i never assume that just cus i lost means they are not new. yes i believe new players here can and do defeat me regularly. no big deal. and i never interrogate them for doing so. i'll say gg or vgg, and i might ask them "who are you"?, or "do i know you"?. and if they don't want to say one way or the other i am 100% ok with it, and i let it go with a smile.
but, and yes there are "Red Moves". believe me or not, i won't argue the point to make you understand this. we can just agree to disagree if you refuse to trust me on this one.
and in my opinion, when a new player does up to date "red moves" that can only be found by studying brainking games, not found in the data base at this site, i must assume that they are probably not new to internet play. i did not say for sure they are not, miracles do come true, but im saying "Probably not".
which warrants a polite one time question of, "do i know you"?
and if that one time polite question is so disturbing as to scare away a new player then ide be blown away with amazement.
z
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
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Re: Are you a Pente-?
Posted:
Feb 3, 2011, 10:03 PM
and jack, the funny thing for me here is this.
you admit to regularly hiding under as a guest. to avoid playing rated or what ever the reason matters not to me. but you are a regular player, and hide as a guest pretending to be new perhaps sometimes.
are you a part of the solution, or a part of the problem?
and if a new player plays strong, so strong in fact that they are brought into question as to new or not new here,.. should this or should this not be "flattering for them"? ide think they should smile and feel honored for such a compliment. and if they are so sensitive to miss the bus on this one, then perhaps they should return to the site when they have matured enough to not be offended about something so trivial that it shouldnt even come close to falling under a catigory of harrassment or insults. just my 2 cents.
z
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
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Re: Are you a Pente-?
Posted:
Feb 4, 2011, 7:02 AM
ok we seem to be on the same page i guess. if you can, send me a PM to explain the hidden details of the incident that happened.
you have my attention and ide like to know what was said by whom and is this really as extreme as you say it is. we'll keep this in closed channels.
i might even enter as a guest to see if they really behave this way with me when i show i can play good, and i claim im new here. if so, i'll record the chat log and time and send it to up2ng to mull over.
im saying this out loud so that the members "doing wrong" "as you say" can realize that stopping the behavior, before they get pulled to the side by a admin, is a good idea for them. im sure the admins would really not want to do that. so i think it helps both sides to indicate that there are possible future sting operations .
possibly some new policy of conduct for the treatment of new comers will need to be written, with a penalty warning attached, and when we log in one day, a pop up notification of new policy comes up. and its says "you must read and accept this policy in order to enter the site". a one time pop up if "i agree and accept" is clicked. i dunno. im not a admin. just a member.
was this the response you were searching for in here jack?
z
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: Are you a Pente-Nazi?
Posted:
Feb 4, 2011, 9:09 AM
Let me get this straight, are you saying that a pente_nazi would rather be a big fish in a little pond, and that's our motivation for scaring off good players? In other words you think our ratings are higher than they should be due to a lack of competition? Is that what you're saying to me?
As to speculation of top level players playing as a guest, there is another possibility. That it's a mid level player, using red moves, posing as a top level player, who is posing as a guest. I thought all you top level players covered all the bases, hmmm. It is going to require a whole new level of Gestapo tactics to get to the bottom of this!!!
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Re: Are you a Pente-?
Posted:
Feb 5, 2011, 12:31 AM
the fact that your name is nazi qualifies to have your account deleted imo. and if its a mid level player posing as a red then it still means the guest is not new here.
>It is going to require a whole new level of Gestapo tactics to get to the bottom of this!!!
no,.. a admin will just observe a member being overly rude to a guest and that will be that. not much too complicated about it. admins can view chat logs of tables.... your always being recorded at the tables. and the solution is only a click away.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Posts:
542
Registered:
May 9, 2002
From:
Northeast USA
Re: Are you a Pente-Nazi?
Posted:
Feb 5, 2011, 11:03 PM
----- "this thread, which is about treating everyone with respect in order to grow the Pente.org community."
First, thanks to Jack for bringing this topic up with the community. It is important for active, established members here to be mindful of treating new players with respect and encouraging them to continue playing and participating here at this site -- without new players the site becomes stagnant.
This is a topic that has come up periodically before -- it seems that each new crop of players eventually needs to have this discussion since they were not around the last time it came up. You'd think it should be common sense, but it has been an ongoing issue here and we each need to make an effort to make new players feel welcome.
But, Jack's statement above is right on, because it's more than just treating new players with respect. All players here should always remember to treat EVERYONE with respect -- this includes new players, but also means to respect other established players AND guest players. This is a very simple, straightforward concept that often gets lost in the moment at the live tables. Consider this a reminder.
----- "i'll say gg or vgg, and i might ask them "who are you"?, or "do i know you"?. and if they don't want to say one way or the other i am 100% ok with it, and i let it go with a smile."
In my opinion, this is a perfectly acceptable and responsible way to handle this situation. There is nothing wrong with politely asking the question -- and there is nothing wrong with a guest not answering it truthfully. However, it's likely that many players take it further than this and continue the questioning to the point that it appears accusatory or just plain annoying to the guest player -- especially when many players who know each other are all at a table together laughing and joking around. The new player to the group may not understand the inside jokes and tone often does not come across correctly in text, so we need to all remember to be extra polite so that these players do not have a negative experience if it's their first exposure to the site.
Now, with regards to the notion that it is somehow bad form for established players to log on as a guest -- years ago there was no option to log in as a guest. What happened instead is that players would often log in under a seperate account in order to mask their identity. This created problems because these players would often engage in rated games against strong players with the intent of hurting their rating. Since their relatively new rating would often be lower than their true playing strength, the opponent would often lose more points than they should -- one of many examples that became known around here as "ratings fraud". In addition, the rating system at the time was based on individual games rather than sets, so it was relatively easy to hurt another player's rating in this way. One of the undesirable results was that many players simply became distrustful of new / provisional players and would refuse games against them. These new players became turned off by this and left the site.
Since then, Dweebo has created 3 additional features that have helped greatly. First, we have moved from game-based ratings to set-based ratings so that splitting a set is not punished so severely. Second, all new players must agree to certain rules, which include not creating additional alternate accounts. Doing so is a clear violation of the rules of this site and can include a variety of penalties, including having ALL accounts deleted. Lastly, he created the ability to log in as a Guest -- such players may only play unrated games. This turned out to be a very nice solution since, let's face it, for whatever reason some players often enjoy logging on anonymously and we really do not want players creating alternate accounts in order to do so. Thankfully, most players have followed these rules and no longer use alternate accounts, they log in as guests instead -- as they should.
To be clear, there is nothing wrong with an established player logging in as a guest -- in fact it is one of the intended uses of the feature. Players need to accept this. If it bothers you then don't play against a guest. But please don't harass guest players with too many questions about their identity since you really have no way of knowing if they are a new player or an estabished player.
"I do speak too harshly sometimes, but the term "nazi" is generic."
Ok, Jack, this is where I disagree with you. There is really nothing generic about this term. It is very specific and refers to certain extremist political and curtural viewpoints which are totally repulsive. It would be sort of like using the "N" word (slang for African American) all over the place in a "generic" sense. I'm sure we could think of many other examples. But the fact is that certain groups of people consider these sorts of words to be highly offensive and often extremely inflammatory.
This appears to be a case where you simply may not be educated about the severity of the word and the proper contexts for its use. I would highly suggest a visit to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC for more information. It is a real eye opener.
------------
But, back on topic. Let's all be civil and respectful towards each other -- including provisional, established AND guest players. I hope this issue will resolve itself.
.